Can't Teach "Fetch" !!!

pitbulliest

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#1
There's no way I'm going to ever teach my dog fetch lol..she refuses to FETCH...what does she do? The little bugger runs with the toy and wants ME to chase her around..when I tell her bring it back..she just drops it and runs back to me *slaps forehead*....

She knows leave it...but that won't work...if I tell her to come, she drops the toy where she is and comes...there goes all hope lol

My trainer told me to do it in a small room..just toss the toy and when she grabs it...kinda slide over to her and get her to drop the ball in my hand..that's SOOO not working...she doesn't even want to play in the room...she'll just look at me like I'm an idiot lol not the most toy motivated dog...but it'd be nice to have her fetch toys instead of me having to do it for her!

Any suggestions?
 
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#2
Some dogs just don't "do" fetch, lol! My Bear would go get anything I asked him to bring to me. Never had to ask him twice. BUT, if I threw something and asked him to fetch it or get it and bring it back to me, he'd lay down and give me the most eloquent look; "if you wanted it, why'd you throw it away, huh?"
 
R

RedyreRottweilers

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#3
You have the cart before the horse.

The first step in teaching the retrieve is to teach the dog to pick up and hold an object. I use clicker/operant conditioning techniques to train it. It is surprising how fast it works. Here is how I do it:

First, read here to learn about how clicker training techniques work if you are not familiar with them.

http://www.clickerlessons.com/clicker.htm

Once you are familiar with this, you can work with the methods described below.

To start you will need an object that is very easy for the dog to grasp and hold. I use a dumb bell. You could use a properly sized dowel or other sort of retrieving dummy.

If you use a piece of doweling, cut it about 8" long.

Get ready MANY MANY pieces of some reallly tasty sort of bait, cut into very small pieces.

You will also need something to mark the behavior with. Some people use a clicker. I use the word "YES!"

Make sure you have something cool to drink, and something you like on the TV.

Sit in your favorite chair, with the treats nearby, and the dowel, or dummy, or dumb bell held between your knees. Wait for the dog to come close to the object. Set a target distance of say, 6". When the dog reaches this target distance, mark the behavior, and treat. Make sure each time you treat the dog you hold the treat in such a way that the dog has to touch the bar of the dowel, or the dumb bell, or the middle of the retrieving dummy.

The dog will, guaranteed, approach this area again sooner than later. Again, mark and treat. Mark for looking at the object as well. If the dog happens to accidentally TOUCH the object in any way, JACKPOT the dog, by praising a LOT and giving a handful of treats all at once.

If the dog takes too long to come towards the dumb bell, reduce your "criteria".

Mark and reward any time she comes towards you, or looks at the dumb bell.

You want to find as many reasons to mark and reward her really fast in the early stages as you can. You can then RAISE your criteria, and the dog will work to find out what makes you "click".

Every so often, say, for example, every 3 or 4 "marks", take a break from this activity by tossing a treat across the room for the dog to RUN towards.

Next increase your criteria for the behavior by requiring that the dog touch the object to get a marker. Once the dog gets to this point, things usually progress quickly.

Keep this training up ONLY as long as the dog is interested in playing. This varies from individual dog to dog.

Once the dog understands that touching the object gets him a mark and a treat, wow, the game is on. This becomes SO MUCH FUN for the dog, because he feels he is controlling his rewards. (And in a way he is, isn't he?)

Then once again, you withhold when the dog touches the object. NOW you want the dog to touch or lick the BAR of the dumb bell. When a dog reaches a new level and moves up this behavior closer to what you are looking for, you can JACKPOT the dog again.

As you practice marking behaviors and rewarding like this, gradually increase your criteria until the dog is holding the object as you gently release your knee pressure.

Use NO negatives. An exception is a very gentle, mild plain voiced "ah ah" if the dog needs a bit of help away from some behavior you don't want.

When you get to the point the dog is firmly holding the object, you can then start placing it on the floor near your feet.

Now all this time about every 3 or 4th reward, you've been throwing a treat for your dog to run out for. Did you realize you were going to LINK this running after the treat behavior to the dumb bell?

Once the dog is picking up the dumb bell from the floor, and happily delivering it to your hand, you can start gently sliding it across the floor and rewarding the dog for fetching it. Most dogs RAPIDLY progress to running and fetching things you throw with delight.

The last 2 dogs I trained using this method were RUNNING and fetching by the end of the 4th session.

Bored this weekend? Too hot to play outside?

Try this with YOUR dog and see how long it takes for the dog to actively fetch. Big Grin

A HUGE benefit of this sort of training is that dogs once they learn this, can easily be taught to hold and carry almost anything.

Shopping bags.

Bank bags.

Baskets with goodies in them.
 

BostonBanker

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#4
I'm very proud of having taught Meg to fetch. She came to me completely uninterested in toys and never displayed any retrieving instinct.

I used the clicker, good treats, and back-chained the whole thing. I first taught her to pick the ball up in her mouth (you seem to already have this part with your dog). Clicked whenever her mouth touched it at all. She pretty quickly started picking it up. Then, I would get her really excited about the ball - wave it around, toss it from hand to hand, make it disappear behind my back - until she was just dying for the ball. I would drop it on the ground right in front of me, tell her "get your ball" and praise when she picked it up (I didn't click it at this point, because she had figured out the "get your ball" already). Then, I would hold a treat out to her, tell her "drop it", and when she opened her mouth to take the treat, the ball would drop and I would click. So she knew the end of the behavior (giving the ball back to me) first. Only then did I start tossing the ball a bit further away. It was probably 2 weeks of consistant work (about 15 - 20 minutes every day) before I was really throwing the ball as far as I could.

It is so nice to have a dog that fetches! Good luck!

[/IMG]
 

pitbulliest

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#6
Wow..thanks Red..that's alot to remember...I'll have to read it over a few times for sure lol.

I'm a little confused on one part. My dog already knows the word TOUCH IT...so if I'm rewarding her for touching the toy, is there a possibility that she'll get confused or are the two not related as long as I don't say TOUCH IT?

My second question is...what command word do I use? Just FETCH is ok?

So just to clarify..I'm starting off by sitting in a chair wherever...with the toy in between my knees...and I'm not saying anything at all? I'm just waiitng for the dog to either look at or touch the toy on her own?

And then when I reward the dog for paying attention to the toy each time....it'll eventually lead to the dog holding the toy in her mouth?
 
R

RedyreRottweilers

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#7
Forget the words. Train the behavior, and there is time enough for the words later. This exercise uses NO verbal except to use your voice as a marker or a reward.

Later, after the dog is retrieving, you can give it a name, which ever one you want.

And yes. You must wait for the dog to present the behavior. In the beginning you may click and treat for looking at the dumb bell, or coming within a certain distance of it.

Remember to give EACH reward in a way so as to have the dog touch the object. They progress very quickly.
 

makka619

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#8
With my Beagle, he would always chase the ball but never brought it back, or did but only half way and sometimes just run away with it.

I started to think he didn’t like fetch. Boy, was I wrong. As soon as I backtracked and taught it in little pieces he began to pick it up. Now he loves to fetch and brings it back and places the object in my hand. If he misses my hand, he picks it up and puts it in my hand properly. It’s so cute!

It was SummerRiots thread, where she posted picks of her dog holding about 6 hotdogs in his mouth and balancing on his head that got me straight up to teach my pup hold. I figured if I could get my pup to hold then I would be one step ahead for fetch.

I sat ground level, in front of my pup. I got a small toy of his that he could comfortably hold in his mouth. I held it out to him and other times placed it on the floor in front of him. As soon as he touched it, click and treat.

After he had this down, I put the object on the floor and waited for him to pick it up. Took a while, but he did do it eventually, as soon as he took it in his mouth, click and treat.

After he was doing this reliably, I made him hold it for longer. Again takes a while as he is use to dropping it immediately after he picks it up. So as soon as he held it for just a second longer, click treat. I tried to hold it in his mouth for a little while, after a couple of secs click and treat. He got the idea and started holding it until he heard the click. (Naturally, when I was forcibly holding it in his mouth he would resist, but a quick click after a second or two worked)

Then I started to teach him to put the object into my hand by making sure that it landed in my hand. So, I put my hand right below his mouth and caught it when he dropped it, I clicked and this time I placed the treat in my hand by the object. This was so he could associate the treat with the object in my hand. Plenty of repetitions of this and he caught on, he began to pick up the object and put it in my hand.

Then I started to roll the object only a foot away, and gradually increased the distance when he was comfortably picking up the object from each spot and bringing it back into my hand.

I taught this all in a day with lots of breaks and I was shocked completely at how easy it was too teach in the end.

Now, when we are playing with his toys I will throw them and he runs back and gives it to me without the treat because I am associating it with fun times!!!
 

Zoom

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#10
Right now I"m stuck on Sawyer dropping the object as soon as he picks it up in anticipation of the click, even though I ignore it every time and wait for him to pick it back up to click/treat. OR he will pick it up, bring it halfway back and then lay down and start chewing on it, even though he knows I've got a ton of yummy treats just waiting for him to come back to me. Can't quite get that last bit of "come ALL the way to me with the object in your mouth".

Oh, I'll work more tomorrow.
 

makka619

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#11
Zoom, can I suggest that you make sure Sawyer places the object in your hand reliably before you throw it for him to bring back. Make sure that he picks the object up and when you place your hand out to take it, he puts it in your hand.

I had the exact same problem with Gordy. I tried clicking when he ran after the ball and brought it back a little way, but I couldn't progress because he just didn’t quite get that I wanted the object back and just wouldn't bring it past a certain point without expecting a treat. What I ended up aiming for was Gordy putting the object in my hand = treat.

Only progress onto the next step when he is doing the behavior for each 100% of the time. Obviously, stop marking the behavior for the previous step when you move onto the next. I would end on a high note and have a break in between each step. When I came back I did the same step I finished on; I was lucky enough that he did it right away and I could move right forward.

1. Touch the object (you holding it in your hand and then placed on the floor). Click/Treat.
2. Picks object up from floor. Click/Treat.
3. Holds object. Start with just a second or even a fraction. Click/Treat. (I found this to be the hardest step, just give it time he will catch on.). Move to the next step only when he is holding the object until you click.
4. Catch the object in your hand until he learns to drop it in your offered hand on his own. Click/Treat. This takes a while too. But you need him to be reliably picking up the object and putting it into your hand before you move forward.
5. Throw/roll the object as little as a foot away, he shouldn’t have to move far to get it. He picks the object up and drops it into your hand. Click/Treat. Gradually increase the distance.

*What you can do is give the treat on top of the object so that he associates the treat with the object. For step four, put the treat in your hand with the object.

Well this worked for me and I hope I could be of some help!
 

MomOf7

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#12
This is how I get my dogs to retrieve when they are young. Start out simple. Short retrieves down a hallway all doors closed. This way they have to bring it back to you. If your dog does not bring it back the first time stop there. I would only do 2 good retrieves then end the session with a nice treat and remember to give tons of praise. The more excited you are about each retrieve the more your dog will be excited about doing it. Dont feel ashamed to look like a fool. Thats how excited I want you to get with each retrieve.
Once your dog is retrieving more consistantly to you in the hallway move to a yard or field. Get a long check cord (long leash) 25-30ft. Again start with one retrieve. Reel your dog in as soon as it picks up the item thrown, while saying here or come maybe even "fetch here". I use bumpers or dummies. They look like smaller versions of boat bumpers for docking a boat at a dock.
If you get that one good retrieve quit then. You want to leave your dog wanting more. Put the bumpers or whatever your using up. Then try again later on that day or the next day. Try 2 retrieves if the first one goes well.
Eventually you will get a very consistant retrieve.
The whole reason for teaching hold is so your dog will bring it to hand. I would work on the retrieve first then the hold.

In the world of hunt tests and field trials where you have to have a dog hold and fetch we start out with hold.
Put a leather glove on. Pull up the lips of your dogs mouth and gently insert your hand. With your other hand gently pat the dogs bottom jaw. Saying HOld hold hold hold hold over and over. These sessions should be no more than 5 minutes long. Always treats at the end. once your dog will hold your hand in its mouth use a paint roller. (no paint). Same thing roll up the dogs lips and place the roller in its mouth, pat its bottom jaw and say hold. If your dog is holding give the command to drop. If your dog does not drop it, roll the roller backwards away from you and pull gently forward. Within 2-4 weeks your dog should be holding consistantly. You want your dog to hold it tight enough not to drop it but not so tight its crushing it. A little tug while your dog is holding along with the command hold will help with this. You want your dog to hold until you say drop. Once your dog will hold the roller and drop on command without crusing or keeping it then ask it to start holding other items. Keys, remotes, anything you can think of. I would not use thier toys or balls for this.
Then you will work on a new concept for your dog. The retrieve and hold till you take the bumper or whatever your using. I would not use a ball or anything round. Anything shaped like a paint roller will work best for you and your dog. Much easier to get ahold of for you. Much easier for your dog to hand it to you. By this time your dog should be retrieving consistantly and off the check cord.
Throw the bumper (item) ask your dog to fetch or whatever command your using. Then as it gets about halfway back give the command to hold. Say it over and over till your dog reaches you. If your dog holds then throw another retrieve. Be excited about this. Lots of talk and praise! If your dog does not hold put everything up. Try again later or the next day. Do not keep throwing retrieves. This is very important. You want your dog to learn how to do this correctly.
Then you can teach another concept. Retrieve, heel, hold. You can teach your dog to retrieve and then come back at heel and deliever.
Same thing as before. Start out slow and simple. Hopefully your dog already knows how to sit at heel by now. if not then you need to work on that first.
Pretty soon you will have a dog who loves to retrieve but does it with style:D
 

Zoom

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#13
We got three good retrieves this morning! We've stopped now so he's "left wanting more". Turns out the missing key was that I was just not quite excited enough when he was bringing it back. So while I'm in the living room squeaking and clapping my hands over a paint roller, my dad is looking at me like I've lost my mind. :rolleyes:

But he's starting to catch on now, so we'll work on it more when I get back from work. I know he knows all the seperate components, now we've just got to reliably chain them together. :D

This is def. one area I miss Virgo in...she was an awesome retriever and totally natural...of course...
 

MomOf7

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#14
We got three good retrieves this morning! We've stopped now so he's "left wanting more". Turns out the missing key was that I was just not quite excited enough when he was bringing it back. So while I'm in the living room squeaking and clapping my hands over a paint roller, my dad is looking at me like I've lost my mind. :rolleyes:

But he's starting to catch on now, so we'll work on it more when I get back from work. I know he knows all the seperate components, now we've just got to reliably chain them together. :D

This is def. one area I miss Virgo in...she was an awesome retriever and totally natural...of course...
I am glad the paint roller, getting super excited (and embarassing yourself) and leaving him wanting more is working! That is usually what works best.
Are you using the halllway? I get great results using a hallway with possesive pups. That and a check cord.
Keep up the good work!!
 

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