Ceasar M. has his own mag

So I guess you feel that dog's with SA should be put down also?

If no rescue would have taken him I would have made sure the dog got to Dogtown. They do take dogs from ALL over the country, not just Utah.

Have you ever seen a dog like what Dekka described??? I have. He wasn't as far gone as that one, but he was pretty **** scary. Until you see one, it's really hard to fathom just how dangerous a dangerous dog is and just how impossible it can be to rehab some of them.

We're not talking about a fear driven dog that can be counterconditioned. We're not talking about resource guarding that's manageable and trainable. We're not talking an under exercised, under socialized dog that can be given a good run and a trip out on the town with loads of treats.

:rofl1::rofl1:
Hey dekka, you clearly weren't a good enough trainer.

LD ~ even a place like dogtown has limited resources. Rescues have to turn away or put to sleep dogs like that. The resources it would take to keep that dog alive are better spent saving dozens that can be rehabbed and adopted out that are being euthed simply because there's no room for them.

SA??? What on earth does SA have to do with dangerous?

Whatever

SA has a lot to do with being dangerous. Dog's have injured themselves with SA and worse. You did say a dog that is dangerous to himself with injuring himself did you not?

Actually it is better for some dogs with SA to be put down too. Dogs with severe SA sometimes cannot be treated by meds or any other method we have. I have a friend that had a boxer mix with severe SA. She tried everything, behaviorists, every medication possible, rescue remedy, DAP, desensitizing and her dog was still injuring himself to the point of having to go to the emergency vet if she'd leave. He destroyed so many crates, even ones that were supposedly unbreakable. Imo it is not humane to keep a dog in that state of panic. She ended p having him pts because it really was the most humane thing to do for him.

So no, not ALL dogs with SA, but some of them. And I am saying that as someone who has an SA dog. The only difference is she doesn't hurt herself when I leave her thank god.

Exactly.. if you can't handle SA or fear aggression then the person has no business trying to rehab a dog anyway.

We *except you* are talking about REAL serious behaviour issues. Wrong brain chemistry kind of things. The things you can't really fix. Even Dr Ian Dunbar said there comes a point when you shouldn't take on a dog, the chance of success is so small and in that time you could have rehabbed many and adopted them out.

What? Where did Dekka say she took the JRT to get him gassed?

In the boxer's case then I would say wrong owner. An owner who was home all day would probably have been a wiser placement than being PTS.

I did not say she took him to get gassed. Where did I say she did?. I was pointing out the different methods for putting dogs down and was asking if she was their when it happened with that dog or did she just drop him off. I also wanted her to see the other methods that are used and for HER to comment.

Ummm waht if the owner has to go to the hospital how can you GAURANTEE you will NEVER have to leave your dog for the life of the dog??

If the owner has to go to a hospital I am sure that the owner can make arrangements for the dog to be watched. Heck when I was working I had my father take Lola out for her walk and he did it twice a day. Now if I wind up in the hospital for some reason I am sure him or someone else from the family will be happy to help out.

I am sure that human people have their kids taken care of when they are in the hospital.

In thtat time between walks lola was alone, Heck the owner can NOT even go to dinner without a visit. And human kids can go with you everwhere a dog cant. You really ar ea piece of work you know that, why dont you TRUELY spend time in rescues, with problem dogs, with trainers and THEN come back and still say dogs that are that messed up that they will INJURE themselves in the process are happy.

How Sammy was PTS'd

I took him to my vets office, they knew of his issues. So instead of taking him the waiting room (which would have been stressful for him and other pets) I pre did the paperwork. I took him out behind the clinic and laid with him in the grass. The vet came out and gave him the first shot. I lay there with him and told him I was sorry that he was badly bred and that his brain didn't work right. I stroked him and told him what a good dog he was as he went to sleep. The vet came out and gave him the final shot and I cried (and am crying again now). I held him till he was gone and cried some more.

Have you ever dealt with SA? I have and it is not easy and my dog has a very mild case of it. There is no way to 'fix' SA, just manage it. This was a big, strong dog that was intent on basically killing himself to get back to his owner every single time he was left alone. No kennels could hold him, he'd figure out ways to get out. He impaled himself on a piece of a metal kennel he'd busted once. His paws were completely bloody as were his gums from clawing and biting the entire time his owner was gone. I can't remember how many times he had to get stitches. He couldn't be left alone for a minute and the owner wasn't one that was out a lot either. She worked from home.

Are YOU willing to deal with a dog like that? I certainly don't know anyone that is and it's not like there are homes just lined up wanting a dog like this. It's inhumane to make a dog live in that state of panic. Eventually that dog was going to hurt himself to the point that it would kill him.

Lola did have SA when I first adopted her. Something the previous owner neglected to tell me but after talking to her I found out. Lola could never leave her side, had to be everywhere she went, slept in her bed and everything else.

The previous owner did the right thing and rehomed her with me. I got her over her SA and yes she was to the point she could have injured herself.

As for dogs my experiences with dogs goes back to when I was a toddler to now in my late 40's so I have a lot of experience with dogs and also with training the dogs that we have had. So I have a lot of experience and do not need to work in a shelter.

Yeah, but they don't take every dog that gets offered to them. The fact that you brush that fact off as 'whatever' just goes to show that you really don't have a lot of experience with the rescue world.

Also, and I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but living a life in a shelter isn't really ideal. There ARE places that are equipped to keep a dog long term like that but most aren't and I've seen dogs literally go crazy from all that time spent in a kennel with minimal exercise and interaction. It's not the worker's/volunteer's fault either - they can only do so much for each individual dog. The fact is though, the majority of their time will be spent locked up.

As with sickness, things like this come down to a quality of life issue. Keeping a dog (or any animal) alive just for the sake of having them alive is an emotional decision and not always best for that animal. I'm not saying rush out and euthanize any problem pet but there ARE situations where it warrants consideration.

Just popping out of lurker status agian

Obviously you do if you see no problem with a dog that is so focued on HURTING people and other animals tht it will injure itself

It's not just about having experience with dogs though. You need to have experience (or at least an understanding of) with how shelters are run, what kind of resources they have, what they are equipped to handle, etc.

And honestly, if you're going to be making big claims about what should and shouldn't be happening with these dogs then yes...you should be out there working to help them. The whole put your money where your mouth is idea.