Anti-Breeder Attitudes?

AdrianneIsabel · Oct 18, 2012

Any choice in unjustly generalizing is wrong.

All pit bulls are dangerous monsters. All breeders should be stopped.

When you can "do more", do it, but just because one buys from a breeder or one is a breeder does not negate their contribution to society.

To attempt to demean ones character or remove ones rights because they aren't "just like you" is a horrific action to take.

Fran27 · Oct 18, 2012

JessLough said:

Yeah I think I've seen this attitude somewhere

Ok so we have dog snobs. I guess rescue dogs are good enough as long as they're for other people. I think that sums it up.

I understand where you guys come from, it just baffles me a little bit that's all. And I really see why so many dogs are in shelters, considering they are not good enough for a lot of people. It's just sad you don't want to see the link.

AdrianneIsabel · Oct 18, 2012

Fran, where do *I* stand?

Linds · Oct 18, 2012

Fran27 said:

Yep, that's totally what everyone just said.

HayleyMarie · Oct 18, 2012

I met an anti breeder person working at the local pet store, all I can say is she was completely crazy and she was not worth my time.

Yes, my next dog is going to be a breeder dog. This dog has been in my plans for the last three years. I also put my plans on hold when we decided to keep Mitsu, My rescue *gasps* dog who died at the age of 10 months because of a heart issue.

Why am I getting from a reputable breeder is because I was a healthy pet. I increase my chances of a healthy dog in body and mind when I go to a breeder I trust and who does all the bells and whistles that makes them a reputable breeder in my mind.

The breed I want, you will NOT find in the shelters here, period.

Emily · Oct 18, 2012

Fran27 said:

Holy blood pressure, Batman. *walks away* I'm giving myself a temporary ban from this thread.

You know what's sad? Your attitude.

~Jessie~ · Oct 18, 2012

None of my dogs are from rescues/shelters... and I own two very popular breeds. I've never regretted my decision. I've fostered dogs and adopted them out. I have nothing against dogs from rescues OR responsible breeders.

Since owning a dog is a HUGE commitment (can be up to 20 years!), it's very much a personal decision when it comes to choosing a dog. I'm of the belief "choose what works best for YOU"- if you adopt a dog that doesn't fit your lifestyle because people made you feel guilty about wanting a breeder dog, YOU'RE the one who has to live with that dog.

And then we get into the argument of "why did you rescue a chihuahua/maltese/poodle/sharpei? Why didn't you rescue a pitbull/lab/insert popular breed here? There are too many of those in shelters!" And then if you rescue a pitbull or lab, you'd still get "why did you rescue a purebred when there are mixed breeds needing homes?"

You really can't win.

I LOVE chihuahuas... but there's a big separation between "well bred" and "poorly bred." The breed standard calls for an apple domed head... go to petfinder.com or any of the (plentiful) BYB websites, and you'll see a very small percentage of chihuahuas missing this prominent feature. Most of them don't even look like chihuahuas.

Responsible breeders shouldn't be punished because lousy breeders are dumping their dogs in shelters, and irresponsible owners are letting their dogs breed all willy nilly.

Saeleofu · Oct 18, 2012

Um, NO.

The ONLY reason I got a second dog was because I needed a service dog. I got Logan from an excellent breeder after a long search to find the perfect candidate. If he hadn't worked out, I would have kept him anyway, but it would also mean that I wouldn't be able to try again to get a service dog until one of my current dogs passed or until I had a place of my own where I could keep 3 large breed dogs. Thus, I had to make sure everything was set for a success. Even then there were no guarantees, but it's all about stacking the deck in your favor. I could have gone through 100 shelter labs and STILL not have a dog suitable to be a service dog. Logan is my first attempt, and he has been successful. If I was "a little bit lenient" would not have ended up with a dog with the perfect combination of drive, temperament, work ethic, intelligence, and size that makes the service dog I needed.

And don't even start on telling me there are service dog programs that use rescues, or that I should have gone through such a program. NO. Yes, some service dog programs use rescues, and they go through a LOT of dogs finding the ones that will actually work. I don't have the ability to house hundred of dogs to find one that will work out. Most service dog programs breed their own dogs, because they are looking for a certain type that is cut out to be a working dog. But anyway, I could not find a program that would train a dog for me and suit my needs and standards (plenty of crappy programs were willing to give me a poorly trained, temperamentally unsound dog for several thousand dollars). I had to train my own because it was the only option at the time. I do hope by the time I need a successor dog I can get a program dog, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

The bottom line is, if I didn't find a suitable service dog candidate, I wouldn't have gotten another dog. I wouldn't settle for less.

Red.Apricot · Oct 18, 2012

Fran27 said:

But that's certainly not my attitude. :[ I did look at rescues/shelters, and didn't find what I was looking for in a dog.

It's not about being good enough, it's about being the kind of dog I want. My boyfriend's peke mix is a good dog, but he and I clash horribly. We'd be miserable if my boyfriend and I traded dogs. Dogs aren't interchangeable.

~Jessie~ · Oct 18, 2012

Fran27 said:

What?!

I love my breeds because they fit me SO well. It doesn't make me a dog snob. It just means I have a better chance of finding my perfect fit through breeders who know the parents and the puppies inside and out. Again, these are dogs that live with us for up to 20 years. That's a 1/4 of a normal lifespan. I'd prefer to spend that huge chunk of time with my ideal breed.

Xandra · Oct 18, 2012

Fran27 said:

I agree with this.

Here is my mostly arbitrary break down of the people who go to good breeders for pets:

10% give up on having a dog if they couldn't get one from a good breeder
90% would go elsewhere

Of the 90%,
60% would look at rescue
30% would go to a crap breeder

of the 60%
20% would find something they liked
10% would settle for a little less/something different
30% would give up and go to a crap breeder

If no breeders existed (not even crummy ones), the 90% would be split between rescue and the people who have a random litter in their backyard.

I totally get that for some people, it is a breeder dog or nothing. But on the condition that the buyer COULD be satisfied with the right rescue dog (and I think many pet buyers could be) then yes, a breeder dog is "taking away" a home from a rescue dog.

Like in my case. I could've found a rescue dog that I love just as much as Roman.

That said, I don't think dog breeding, buying or ownership has to be some charity (caninitarian) effort. It's certainly nice if you want to provide a home for a dog that would otherwise be put down. I think it particularly demonstrates compassion if you'll settle for a little less to give a dog a home. But just like I don't think we have to sacrifice our spending money for foreign aid organizations or our evenings at the soup kitchen, I don't think we have a moral obligation to get our dogs from shelters.

~Jessie~ · Oct 18, 2012

Red.Apricot said:

I bought my first dog when I was a 20 year old college student living in an apartment... and going through a rescue was impossible. My only option was the local shelter/SPCA.

Honestly, I wasn't in a financial position to take on a dog with unknown possible health issues.

MandyPug · Oct 18, 2012

Fran27 said:

In my country (and many of the states depending on availability) I NEED a pure bred dog or one that is of a recognized breed (or close enough looking to one) to do what I want to do with dogs. If I pick up any shelter mix there's no way I can compete in Rally, Obedience unless I want to travel HOURS each way and no way I can do Scenthurdle at all. Not to mention I want to do Working Retriever tests with my next dog, I need a retrieving breed and Flat Coated Retriever are the breed that I mesh with best. Should i compromise on what I know suits me best just to rescue the lab in the shelter? Or should i play russian roulette with health on the golden sitting in rescue when I want a dog that can play and be sound into adult and senior ages? FCRs don't show up in shelters very often. It'll be 2+ years before I can even get one anyways and it'll be worth the wait.

You're over simplifying the issue. It's not the reputable breeders who are there for the dog that's the problem and it's certainly not the dog fanciers who DO THINGS with their dogs and need specific traits for that are the problem. It's the people out there breeding litter after litter of poorly bred dogs for profit, the people that surrender their dogs when they become a mere inconvenience, the people who choose to buy from these bybs and pet stores on impulse and get in over their heads.

ETA: For the record, Izzie was a private rehome as a pup but she's originally from a crap breeder. The only reason I am able to compete in what I do is because she does have known parents and looks like a recognized breed without doubt.

release the hounds · Oct 18, 2012

I am a hypocrite, I'm over it, you should get there too. Everybody has their limits and standards they hold themselves to and I haven't met a single living soul anywhere that lives their life in total congruence with the standards they state they have. There are even a rather large group that can't even hold themselves to the standards they hold for everyone else, but I digress.

I love dogs, always have. I give my dogs the best lives I can. It's what I control. I volunteer for a rescue org, not often but sometimes. We always go to their fundraisers. I chose not to devote my life to rescue. I have many other things I dedicate my life to that those in rescue don't. Do I think they're bad people for not believing in the causes I hold close?? Hell no, why would I?

I have very few standards to judge people by, and yeah I know i'm not supposed to judge, sue me for that one too. Don't kill people that don't deserve it

Don't lie too often, don't cheat too much, and take care of your own **** so I don't have to most of the time. Beyond that I can accept all sorts of people. They might not be people I hang out with, but I don't put them on the people that deserve to die list either

I have breeder dogs, because I like the dogs they had and I wanted one. I take care of them, will till they're gone. If you can't accept that, again, not my problem. I don't think any breeders are really the problem. I used to, but it's a rarity that puppies go right from breeder to shelter.

a much more common scenerio is someone buys the puppy, it becomes an older puppy or young adult and they decide they don't want to honor their commitment and dump it. There aren't too many puppies being born and not enough homes for them to go to. There are plenty of both. problem is, so many don't want to "take care of their own stuff" so I don't have to around.

When I start dumping my dogs at shelters, or not feeding them or loving them, then maybe i'll start to dislike myself. Until then I don't give a flying you know what about where my dogs come from and YOU shouldn't either. They will be loved and cared for till they're gone. Beyond that you shouldn't have any business in my business.

If you can't understand that, it's not really my problem.

~Jessie~ · Oct 18, 2012

release the hounds said:

I am a hypocrite, I'm over it, you should get there too. Everybody has their limits and standards they hold themselves to and I haven't met a single living soul anywhere that lives their life in total congruence with the standards they state they have. There are even a rather large group that can't even hold themselves to the standards they hold for everyone else, but I digress.

I love dogs, always have. I give my dogs the best lives I can. It's what I control. I volunteer for a rescue org, not often but sometimes. We always go to their fundraisers. I chose not to devote my life to rescue. I have many other things I dedicate my life to that those in rescue don't. Do I think they're bad people for not believing in the causes I hold close?? Hell no, why would I?

I have very few standards to judge people by, and yeah I know i'm not supposed to judge, sue me for that one too. Don't kill people that don't deserve it

Don't lie too often, don't cheat too much, and take care of your own **** so I don't have to most of the time. Beyond that I can accept all sorts of people. They might not be people I hang out with, but I don't put them on the people that deserve to die list either

I have breeder dogs, because I like the dogs they had and I wanted one. I take care of them, will till they're gone. If you can't accept that, again, not my problem. I don't think any breeders are really the problem. I used to, but it's a rarity that puppies go right from breeder to shelter.

a much more common scenerio is someone buys the puppy, it becomes an older puppy or young adult and they decide they don't want to honor their commitment and dump it. There aren't too many puppies being born and not enough homes for them to go to. There are plenty of both. problem is, so many don't want to "take care of their own stuff" so I don't have to around.

When I start dumping my dogs at shelters, or not feeding them or loving them, then maybe i'll start to dislike myself. Until then I don't give a flying you know what about where my dogs come from and YOU shouldn't either. They will be loved and cared for till they're gone. Beyond that you shouldn't have any business in my business.

If you can't understand that, it's not really my problem.

Great post

Dekka · Oct 18, 2012

Deep breaths are good.

People adopt dogs because why do we have dogs?

We have dogs to be our companions.. why pick a dog who won't mesh with our lives? Same as why we don't marry people we don't like or or not attracted to. Because I don't want to marry some guy because I don't like him and don't want to spend years with him does that mean I can't say I love my husband? Or my male child?

Why don't we blame those dumping, or target the breeders that ARE the problem? Why not blame the consumer? After all they are the one buying and dumping dogs... if they were more discerning of what dog they got there would be next to no dogs in shelters.

As I have said oft in the past. There is a 'simple' fix.

Force ALL breeders to be responsible for dogs for life. IF that causes dogs to be much more expensive for people.. fine that is just the way it will have to be. Chip all dogs with breeder's info. Any dog that ends up in a shelter will be offered back to the breeder, OR the breeder will be charged for that dog's stay in the shelter.

Not only would that fix the over population it would make breeders much more wary who they placed dogs with.

That solves the problem in many ways. Keeps funding to shelters and has a net result of producing less dogs whilst not stopping those doing it properly.

sassafras · Oct 18, 2012

The assumption that if people couldn't go to breeders they would get shelter dogs I think is a shaky foundation for this entire argument. I know many people who would simply not get a dog, would import a dog from another country, etc.

Also, one of the absolutely most important things to reduce shelter populations is that dogs stay in their original home for their whole lifetime regardless of where they came from originally. It does diddly squat if someone gets a dog from a shelter, doesn't bond well, decides two years later that it actually wasn't the best choice for them, and returns it to the shelter. I've also seen rescues, in their zeal to get every dog into a home, be dishonest about some very significant behavior problems that put off people and their friends/relatives from ever getting dogs from a rescue again. Also accomplishes diddly squat. This is a long game, not a "fix it NOW" game.

You can argue all day long that that person is a bad person, they "should" feel differently and be more committed to a dog they may have been guilted into getting, etc until you are blue in the face. If you want to bang your head against the wall of human nature, have fun with that. I live in the real world where people sometimes behave like people.

So if a person getting a dog from a breeder keeps that dog its whole life, and if their circumstances change that dog goes back to the breeder instead of to a shelter... then I'm all for that.

I've always had second hand dogs, but in the future that may change. I can't count on every rescue dog to be as good at mushing as Maisy happened to be by chance. There are lots of huskies and Alaskans up here, so maybe it will be a rescue or rehome, or maybe it will be a breeder. If it's the latter, I don't feel guilty about it... dogs that come to me, stay with me.

Picklepaige · Oct 18, 2012

Meh, I just ignore it. My cousin, while not as bad as the images shown, doesn't care for breeders, but she also runs an awesome pit bull rescue, so I can't rag on her much, as she's saving way more dogs than most people ever will.

I know in my area, breeders aren't really the problem. The problem is "oops" litters. The majority of the dogs we get in are puppies, and every single day we have at least 5 people come in with a litter saying "well, ol' Delilah got with a stray and we can't find homes, here ya go." So, in my area, spay/neuter is the biggest solution.

I understand that shelters in the north don't have this problem, though, which is so weird to me!

Red Chrome · Oct 18, 2012

I choose to buy my sport dogs from breeders. However, I have 1 rescue dog who is 13, 1 breeder dog who is 5 and 1 rescued breeder dog who is almost 2. So, most of my dogs are "rescues" in one way or another. I prefer breeder dogs. I prefer certain lines with certain traits and certain looks.

I also foster rescue dogs and transport them, donate money to rescues when I can. I also offer free classes to rescued dogs of certain breeds(Yeah, I'm a breedist.). I list, cross post and hustle homes for rescue dogs or dogs in need of homes.

To insinuate that I don't care about shelter or rescue dogs, is ignorant on your part. You don't know what I do to help them or how I feel about them.

sciatrix · Oct 18, 2012

Fran27 said:

Speaking as someone who has a shelter dog--Yes. Yes, if the dog was not the perfect dog I was looking for, I would not have adopted her, and she might have died. (And there were many dogs "in need" I did not look twice at because they did not fit my needs, and some of them were euthanized. And frankly, I was looking specifically at shelter dogs because I wanted an adult dog. If I had wanted a puppy, I would not have even glanced at shelters because the kind of puppy I would be interested in does not exist there. Period.) It really sucks for those dogs that don't make it out and I totally support the people who work to rescue all and any dogs in need.

Thing is? I have room for exactly one dog in my life right now. I just don't have the money, the housing, or the time for more than one. So when I was looking for a dog, I needed to get it right the first time, or the odds are good that it would have ended up needing to be rehomed again. I wanted a dog to do some very specific things that not all dogs can handle, and a dog who was a bad fit for those would have made both of us very unhappy for no good reason. The vast majority of dogs in my local shelter did not fit those qualifications, and in fact I kept an eye out for nearly a year without finding a dog that worked for me.

Adopting a dog who is a bad fit for what you want the dog to able to do is why dogs end up in shelters in the first place! Are you seriously suggesting that people who want a dog should just suck it up and go get a pit or Lab mix from the kill shelter even if that's not the best fit for their lives? I can tell you right now, that's not going to improve the situation of dogs being shuttled back and forth from homes much, especially if you're encouraging people to adopt dogs that they KNOW are not a great fit (which I see you are, downthread).

Anti-Breeder Attitudes?

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