Questions for bully & APBTA 'type' owners

While I certainly disagree with purposefully breeding away from DA because it should not be the focus of a breeding program for or against, I do agree that a dog which is not DA is not somehow not an American Pit Bull Terrier, or is a poor example of such. Take a look at any Pit Bull pedigree, from the least of the breed to the highly-revered greats such as Jeep and Chinaman, and you will find cold dogs in that pedigree. For instance:

And yet this dog can be found to be the sire, grandsire, etc of many game dogs.

There have been also many a dog who was an achieved fighting dog and yet would be allowed to run the yard without bothering the other dogs. I know Nigerino was one example of a dog who could play at least with bitches without fighting with them and yet he was a Grand Champion pit dog.

Oh, LOL, the shell of a dog argument, that's another awesome one. Did you know my Malinois are boring, driveless, shells because they can perform an obedience routine around other dogs?

robots baby, control makes dawgs into ROBOTS. Drink the koolaide.

I thought that's who it was but unsure.

I don't thinks it's even breeding away from dog aggression, it's expecting your dog to have some self control.

Grant, my AmStaf, is not a dog that I can just let play with other dogs. But, I could take him into the obedience ring. A friend had a house full of bull breed bitches, and he could play with some of them. He tolerates my Malinois puppy, even plays with him a bit. His relationship with my last Malinois was rocky, and they rarely interacted.

Cliff, I don't think that quote you posted has anything to do with Dog Aggression? It's about children...

Just because a dog has dog aggression doesn't mean that it's out of control. I'm sure that's not what you meant, but it sounded like it.

Are you talking about the variance in type amongst even the gamebred APBTs, much less the other lines and ASTs? If so, I never denied such a thing. I, myself, have owned dogs that ranged in looks from a 60 lb blockier Colby dog (which was actually a rescue and I'm sure bred for pedigree and name) to a 34 lb Boyles/Patrick dog. But that just actually serves to back up the point that the common denominator needs to remain it being a working dog.

I could start posting pics of more dogs that look identical to APBTs, but in name they are working-bred SBTs and Irish Staffs. If your argument of "physical looks determine the breed", are these dogs APBTs as well? Or better yet, are all these APBTs and ASTs actually SBTs instead?

At some point the line has to be drawn. As for me, I've been all for the stopping of dual registration since 2000. It's creating nothing but problems, and only serves to add to the dissension amongst owners and breeders.

You can show pictures of spaniels, setters, and retrievers all day long, but IMO, no single breed has more variance in type than the APBT. That is confounded further when you lump all the "pit bull" breeds together.

**I'm on my phone, so I've tried to keep it short and to the point

My Malinois are dog aggressive. We're referring to the accusation of a few ADBA people that dogs who aren't allowed to lunge like fools in the ring are robotic shells of dogs.

Dual registration didn't stop in 2000. It's been in the last 2-3 years. And, that's just UKC. ADBA is still happy to register AmStafs as APBTs.

I think she's saying she's been in support of closing the dual registry doors since 2000.

Who said that exactly? I know I've never said such a thing. If someone else said that in this thread I must've missed it.

This.

As for the ADBA, sure they're happy to dual register ASTs as APBTs. Their number 1 priority is $$$, and it always will be. They also registered Whopper, and continue to register his offspring. They registered Gotti, and they continue to register 85-100 lb "APBTs" that more closely resemble oversized English Bulldogs or poorly bred Neo Mastiffs.

I quit registering dogs back in the mid 2000's. Only those individual dogs that needed such, for weight pull events or to show, got registered. I keep my own peds for my dogs. And since I never mass produced litters to pump out to the general public, I had no reason to bother with the ADBA for selling reasons. The pups I produced stayed with me, my brothers, and a select few of very close friends. I single registered pups for them as needed, as explained up above.

I don't think anyone here has said it (if they have, I missed it), but I cannot tell you how many times that's been thrown at me by ADBA people regarding Sako (who is an Amstaff, dual registered with UKC). He's a "shell of a dog" and was "only bred to look pretty and stand like a statue" according to some. Uh huh.

Yup, its a very common insult thrown around. A laughable one.

I know, and it's sad. Sorry that my dog is capable of standing amongst other dogs, and even likes them (yeah, I've had people tell me he's not a real Bully breed because he's dog friendly)! Oh and that I have (and am working toward) titles on him. My bad.

FWIW, I'm not saying ALL ADBA people are this way, but those are the people that throw those comments around.

Oops! Sorry, Miakoda. I've yet to have any caffeine today!






Yes, my hollow shell and I get it all the time. The best part is that it's usually coming from people who only do ADBA conformation.

Not necessarily. I'm asking a specific set of questions; In post #298, do you consider the first dog and the third dog to be APBTs? Why, or why not, by your logic? If not, what are they, by your logic? If you do agree that the first dog posted, and the third dog posted are both APBTs, explain to me how the dual registered dog in the last photo is not an APBT.

This isn't about SBTs. This conundrum is unique to APBTs because up until the past couple years, the UKC itself considered the APBT and AST to be the same breed.

I still, by far, find the "Our dogs are way more intense than those robots who do IPO" to be the funniest statement. (This wasn't in this thread)

RAWR I can lunge on a leash so I must be able to champion IPO. Err, go back to your lunging around a ring, leave the real work to us. :/

I've heard it as well, I was just under the impression it was brought up in this thread.

When I see someone in the show ring with a dog straining at the leash and acting a fool while the owner stands there and laughs, I think the owner looks like a fool as well. At least try to control your dog. Having owned a screamer myself, I understand the challenge. However, it was my job to exert control over my dog. I don't care that he was DA or really that he wanted to eat other dogs, I cared that he had no respect for me (at first) and thought it acceptable to ignore me and continue doing what he wanted to do. That is what wasn't acceptable.

You can have an extremely DA dog that is manageable. If you can't manage your dog, then you aren't quite the owner you thought you were. JMO

With that said, even though I could manage my dogs on leash, I could not have turned them loose in an obedience ring filled with several other dogs or take them to a fly all event. That would've been setting them up for failure. Same as a dog park. Know your dog and know its limits.

Ok, so we've established that the goal of matching dogs was to prove gameness. And...then what? What purpose did gameness serve that you needed to prove it so badly? And what about matching a dog to another DOG proved it so well? Why isn't hog hunting seen as a valid way to prove gameness? I mean, a hog is what, three or four times the dog's size, with giant tusks (the better to gore them with), keen intelligence, formidable strength and the battle ground is a whole forest they know like the back of their hoof. But yet, putting two dogs of comparable size, strength and intelligence in a small ring together where they have nowhere to go but at each other is the BEST way to test gameness? It seems to me a dog would have to be pretty dam* badass to chase a wild dog, corner it, bite it, and hold on as the giant pissed off creature fights for its life with everything it's got.

I can't support dog fighting because I don't see the purpose of it. Hog hunting I can see, hogs are overrunning parts of the US, plus I hear they taste pretty good. Can't eat them myself, stomach issues, but I won't stand in somebody's way if they like some good wild-caught meat.