The preservation of the pure bred dog..

Status
Not open for further replies.

borzoimom

Couch Pototoe City
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
2,952
Likes
0
Points
0
#1
To those of us that follow that premis, to get the best, to reduce physical problems in the breed, we are obligated to show the best to the best, and breed the best to the best- otherwise we are nothing more than what we abhore in breeding whatever to whatever.. To reduce problems in the breed, we as breeders should only breed the best with no health problems otherwise we are no different than someone throwing two dogs together to make pups..
Soooooooo tell me. .. If a sire and dam both hadthis defect, knowing it ran in the breed, would you breed it???? " DEGENERATIVE JOINT DISEASE I UNILATERAL RIGHT". Knowing the breed could have problems with this- my question is simple- would you breed it? To me its no different than what we condone with breeding a collie with eye problems or certain others with heart disease....
Would you breed it? Dont need to explain it- the question is- would you breed two dogs with a breed defect know in the breed and take the chance..
My answer is no..
 
Joined
Dec 20, 2003
Messages
94,266
Likes
3
Points
36
Location
Where the selas blooms
#2
If they both carried the identical defect for the identical area, no, but there are always going to be mitigating factors that a knowledgeable person has to weigh.

If there were questions about DIFFERENT aspects, I'd have to take into consideration the depth of the gene pool, for one thing, then factor in how dominant or recessive the genes for the faults were and make a judgment call based on those and other factors, looking to pair in order to offset weaknesses in each of the lines I was using and to infuse my line with strengths from each side, both mutual and exclusive.

Nothing is ever absolute.
 

noludoru

Bored Now.
Joined
Dec 22, 2006
Messages
17,830
Likes
8
Points
38
Location
Denver, CO
#3
We went over this in chat, and it concluded with you implying that a certain well-repected member is not only a bad breeder but is breeding "defective" dogs, and leaving chat because no one wanted to hear this BS. The breeder you are taking an issue with, and her breeding you are referring to, has been discussed MANY, MANY times on this forum and there are AT LEAST ten threads talking about her decision to breed her dogs.

If you have a problem with her, I suggest you take it up with HER rather than making passive-aggressive threads in the hopes of getting what you want when those of us in chat saw through your petty tactics.

ETA: I was just informed that this passive-aggressive BS is not only aimed at one member here, as per the collie comments. I, again, will suggest that you take up your issues with these individuals rather than behaving in such a childish manner.
 
Last edited:

jess2416

Who woulda thought
Joined
Jan 26, 2006
Messages
22,560
Likes
0
Points
36
Age
45
Location
NC
#4
We went over this in chat, and it concluded with you implying that a certain well-repected member is not only a bad breeder but is breeding "defective" dogs, and leaving chat because no one wanted to hear this BS. The breeder you are taking an issue with, and her breeding you are referring to, has been discussed MANY, MANY time son this forum and there are AT LEAST ten threads talking about her decision to breed her dogs.

If you have a problem with her, I suggest you take it up with HER rather than making passive-aggressive threads in the hopes of gettign what you want when thos eof us in chat saw through your petty tactics.
exactly :hail:

and I have nothing better to say, so im leaving it at that...
 

MericoX

Roos, Poos, & a Wog!
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Messages
5,326
Likes
0
Points
36
Age
39
Location
In depression
#5
Apparently no one on this forum are "dog people" and we "won't understand" if we all care to disagree.

Though I prefer to deep fry when battering breeds. :)
 

Dekka

Just try me..
Joined
May 14, 2007
Messages
19,779
Likes
3
Points
38
Age
48
Location
Ontario
#6
There is so much to breeding. Do you breed a dog with less drive, do you breed a dog who is a known carrier.

On the surface I would say no. But if the dog is stellar in other ways and the risk is minimal (known to be recessive) and you plan to pick the best pup out of that litter and breed from that one (assuming it is health etc are excellent) then I think its a risk that might be made.

There is no such thing as a perfect dog. Good breeding is an art, and compromises must be made. How far you are willing to compromise is up to each breeder. Some breeders seem to be able to assess risks and make what on the surface seem questionable choices and come out ahead.
 

jess2416

Who woulda thought
Joined
Jan 26, 2006
Messages
22,560
Likes
0
Points
36
Age
45
Location
NC
#7
Apparently no one on this forum are "dog people" and we "won't understand" if we all care to disagree.

Though I prefer to deep fry when battering breeds. :)
dont forget non of us know REAL purebreeds
 

borzoimom

Couch Pototoe City
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
2,952
Likes
0
Points
0
#8
If they both carried the same defect, no.
....
I would not either.. No way.. to breed a dog with a defect is awful, to breed to another with the same defect is irresponsible.. Femka came out of a low thyroid mother bred to normal father but look what we deal with.. and we love her.. Each breed needs to look to breed " clean to clean" otherwise no different than a puppy mill to me..
 

MafiaPrincess

Obvious trollsare Obvious
Joined
Nov 30, 2006
Messages
6,135
Likes
0
Points
36
Age
41
Location
Ontario
#10
Coming from the compulsive liar who can't be bothered to back up any of her claims like the fake 17 OTCHes and many SCH3 titles. Sadly, your comments and slander don't hold much weight anymore.
 

borzoimom

Couch Pototoe City
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
2,952
Likes
0
Points
0
#12
There is so much to breeding. Do you breed a dog with less drive, do you breed a dog who is a known carrier.

On the surface I would say no. ...
I dont care about the drive... We as owners need to know if our babies are healthy.. thats what it boils down too and degenerative disease is no joke.. Some poor owner will deal with the heart ache- not the idiot breeder that did it.. WE ARE the ones that loved them.. the ones that cared for them all their life- the pain, the suffering, the vet bills but most OF ALL THE HEART PAIN when we loose them because some idiot did not think at the time of breeding..
 

Dekka

Just try me..
Joined
May 14, 2007
Messages
19,779
Likes
3
Points
38
Age
48
Location
Ontario
#13
To say you must breed clean to clean or you are horrible negates what we know of science... (and is insulting)

If you breed carriers to clean, you have NO (as in ZERO) risk of producing affected pups. Once you have enough fabulous dogs (large gene pool) then you can start breeding clean to clean. But as there are never enough fabulous dogs, breeding clean to carrier is still IMO ok.

LOL it will all be a moot point anyway. Unless breeds allow the odd outcross, (OMG non pure-run for the hills!!!) the purebred dog will not be able to be preserved anyway.
 

Dekka

Just try me..
Joined
May 14, 2007
Messages
19,779
Likes
3
Points
38
Age
48
Location
Ontario
#14
I dont care about the drive... We as owners need to know if our babies are healthy.. thats what it boils down too and degenerative disease is no joke.. Some poor owner will deal with the heart ache- not the idiot breeder that did it.. WE ARE the ones that loved them.. the ones that cared for them all their life- the pain, the suffering, the vet bills but most OF ALL THE HEART PAIN when we loose them because some idiot did not think at the time of breeding..
See and to me breeding a dog without drive (for what is expected of that breed) is as bad as breeding carrier to carrier, or affected to affected. It might work, but I would NEVER do it.

I wont' breed a JRT who won't hunt, I won't breed a whippet who won't chase. Pure and simple.
 

noludoru

Bored Now.
Joined
Dec 22, 2006
Messages
17,830
Likes
8
Points
38
Location
Denver, CO
#15
Coming from the compulsive liar who can't be bothered to back up any of her claims like the fake 17 OTCHes and many SCH3 titles. Sadly, your comments and slander don't hold much weight anymore.
Thank you, Mafia. I think this says it all. The lies I have seen on here are absolutely obscene - someone supposedly in hiding shouldn't be posting on the 'net, never mind posting a picture, phone number, and address multiple times.

Mods, her posts are treading the lines of libel right now, as are some of her comments in chat. This is absurd. Can someone please take appropriate action?
 

borzoimom

Couch Pototoe City
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
2,952
Likes
0
Points
0
#16
And now you're accusing her of being a puppy mill. WTF.

I did not say who it was.. For you to continue you will tip it off..
The question stands = would you breed these two dogs ? And if you were to endorse it I find it hard to believe anyone can tell someone that has two dogs to breed and say ' do health testing" when we ourselves some of us are not.. Each breed has a problem.. but the problem here noted is prevelant in the breed.. To me that is no different than breeding a collie with bad eyes, or a cavalier with a bad heart or degenerative heart problems.. This doesn't make sense to me..
 
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
504
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Dallas, Texas
#17
Given that 85% of rough and smooth colles are affected or carriers of CEA and that it is actually one of the LESS serious health problems in the breed (It's not PRA, thyroid problems, HD, bloat, cancer, epilepsy, or DM), if we only bred collies with perfect eyes, we wouldn't HAVE collies.
 
Joined
Dec 20, 2003
Messages
94,266
Likes
3
Points
36
Location
Where the selas blooms
#18
For some of us, DRIVE is of equal weight with health and stability of temperament. A Fila without drive isn't a Fila. A JRT without drive isn't a JRT. A Terrier of any sort, period, without drive isn't a Terrier.

One of the things I liked in an Irish Wolfhound I saw a in the Westminster show a couple of years back was the predator in his eyes. THAT is part of being a Wolfhound. A Beagle that doesn't put nose to ground isn't a Beagle. "Pretty" and "healthy" . . . well, if that's all someone is looking for - and nothing wrong with it - then go rescue a dog.

Right there's a big flaw in the AKC and so many breed clubs. They've abandoned the heart of the dogs.

Really, in my view of the world, someone who breeds without regard to breed appropriate drive is no better than any BYB or miller.
 

borzoimom

Couch Pototoe City
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
2,952
Likes
0
Points
0
#20
For some of us, DRIVE is of equal weight with health and stability of temperament. A Fila without drive isn't a Fila. A JRT without drive isn't a JRT. A Terrier of any sort, period, without drive isn't a Terrier.

One of the things I liked in an Irish Wolfhound I saw a in the Westminster show a couple of years back was the predator in his eyes. THAT is part of being a Wolfhound. A Beagle that doesn't put nose to ground isn't a Beagle. "Pretty" and "healthy" . . . well, if that's all someone is looking for - and nothing wrong with it - then go rescue a dog.

Right there's a big flaw in the AKC and so many breed clubs. They've abandoned the heart of the dogs.
I agree- but would they sacrifice health in exchange for that?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

No members online now.
Top