2006 ATTS Breed Statistics

My honest to goodness answer straight from my heart is NO I would not consider it MORE proof against them in the least, I would've still questioned the methods for the test.
Pittbulls passed this test with a higher rating than dobermans, they tested over 1400 dobes and over 300 failed...(76% passed).........doesn't make me love mine any less.
By that testing standard a skiddish dog fails...............doesn't mean it's aggressive to me.

Breed Name Tested Passed Failed Percent
BELGIAN SHEEPDOG 457 364 93 79.6%
BELGIAN TERVUREN 417 324 93 77.7%

You have to consider the "failure" rates by the probable cause. A breed known to be protective (Dobe, Rott, GSD, APBT, etc) who shys away from the "weird stranger" would fail the test. These dogs would not have bad temperament in a way that was dangerous to the general public, but instead just don't have the "expected" temperament the evaluators were looking for (btw - there are several evaluators who combine their opinion to determine a score - it's not just one person's opinion).

I use temperament testing as a way to showcase soundness. I like the title, and just add it to the other things my dogs do to prove to me they are stable. I would never use it as the end-all-be-all, but it is a nice addition. There are plenty of Collies who will never be tested, because their owners/breeders KNOW they will not pass, so honestly, I think people enter a temperament test thinking (or hoping) their dog will pass. Most people would not test a dog they know would not pass, so you really can't trust those statistics in regard to the general population. It's a nice comparison, but that's about it.

Colliewog makes a very valuable point! I 100% agree. I want to get Riots TT title sometime this summer.

VERY good points Colliewog...............especially the one about people entering at least expecting their dog to pass. I definitely wouldn't go without having worked a lot with my dog before hand.

Its quite alright

Here are the exercises and the things they test. This is at least in part a test for dogs that are expected to be protection dogs. I would also think that the tested dogs would all fail if they didn't have some obedience training first, as many of the exercises are contingent on an "ok" from the handler. I think they could change the name of this test to Protection Dog Temperament Test.

Link: http://www.atts.org/testdesc.html

Man, talk about over-reaction. Why can't people say they don't think this is a valid test? Why is that immediately taken as criticism of any particular breed?? There was NO PB bashing here, and it boggles the mind that someone would have taken it that way.

I think this test is completely flawed for all breeds, and that includes the GSD's and the chows (my breeds). It has nothing to do with PB's in any way. The thread topic is "2006 ATTS Breed Statistics" .. not "Pitbulls are wonderful because of this test". I commented on the TEST, not on the BREED.

This test is flawed for numerous reasons. I think the idea of a temperament test is a good one but it should have been set up better. The problem with saying a dog is "temperament tested" is that it makes it sound - to the general public - that if the dog passes it must have a "good" temperament. Passing this test means nothing when it comes to reality of living in today's society. I've already mentioned that lack of test for prey drive and for dog aggression. I'd say that a test for food guarding should be part of a temperament test too. If you're not going to test the dog for practical, real-life situations then call the test something other than just "temperament test" and make it obvious that the test does not mean that the dog has a temperament that is acceptable for public exposure.

I can see why some people would want to test to see if their dogs have the instincts and temperament proper for each particular breed. In that case, call it a "breed instinct test" and let the parent clubs set up a test that accurately checks for those traits that the dog was originally bred for.

Another thing about the TT is that people are mostly only going to have their dogs tested if they think their dogs will pass. I know in some breeds there's a huge push to have as many pass as possible in the hopes that it will make the breed look better (GSD's, for example, have been pushed some to take this test). If 80% of the dogs tested pass, then there's a tendency with some people to think that 80% of the entire breed has this "good" temperament. Of course, that's not valid.

There's also the problem in knowing why a dog DIDN'T pass. Did it fail because it was overly reactive, or not reactive enough?? A dog that is too placid can fail. While this placid temperament may be perfect for public interaction, it's not what they want for this test. But again, there's a misconception with many people and they think that the TT means the dog has a trustworthy temperament in all situations.

As always, just my opinion - which, of course, is as valid as anyone else's opinion.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

Actually, there is no verbal communication or leash directing allowed between the dog and handler during the entire test. You are silent and have the dog on a completely loose lead at all times. In theory, that's how they "test" the dog's temperament. A highly trained dog will look to the handler for its next cure, but often won't think on its own, and when asked to do so, many cannot pass the test. Therefore, the dog with a sound temperament would approach an obstacle (expen or plastic on the ground), investigate a noise (gunshot or rattling bucket), or sudden movement (umbrella opening) or respond appropriately to a perceived danger (unfriendly stranger). They aren't expecting a Boston Terrier or Whippet to attempt protect the owner, but a Collie or Doberman should, and this is disclosed at the beginning of the test. They also will discuss with you at the end of the test the concensus of the evaluators, whether you passed or failed, and what your strengths/weaknesses are.

Ok I kept seeing this: "The handler may encourage the dog to investigate the umbrella only when asked to do so."...so my assumption when reading it was that the dog couldn't do a thing unless asked. Since you have obviously experienced the test, I understand now that my assumption of the description is wrong.

I've gone through the test with 2 different dogs, and you're allowed to talk to the bucket, or talk to the umbrella. You're not allowed to talk to the dog.

I agree the test has a protection part of it not suited for all breeds.
But they try to use the breed standards book + take into consideration what that specific dog is doing example therapy work or sport work.

I own and or bred the 6 out of the 7 passing Central Asian Shepherd dogs.
And I did or do not own the 1 that failed.

But we are trying to get more of a club breed specific test that would be better for our breed...

So for now we use the ATTS. We are looking towards the UKC SDA Alert one for inspiration..

My opinion is that dogs should not generally be judged on the basis of success in one test.

When the TT is owned by a dog with numerous titles in a variety of discliplines, it can be one more indication of correct stable temperament.

I do feel as a stand alone certification it might in some cases have less value than in a dog who has participated successfully in a variety of things.

I agree but some breeds of dogs are not meant to do it all.
Example a dog bred to guard a farm like a lGD may not be able to pass a CGC.
IN which a dog is handed off to a stranger to walk away.
Or rolled like the TDI.

Or a Fila that is bred only to pass the strong protection test given by the Fila club which uses the standard for its requirement.
Thus CLUB created tests are sometimes best suited for specific breeds vs all breeds tests like ATTS,
Example a FIla that passed a CGC or a ATTS TT would be considered OUT of standard for the breed.

Depends on the temperament requirement for the breed as per standard.
Some breeds can DO it all kin to UKC Total dogs some can not they are more specialists.

I have my studs do as much as they can CGC TDI ATTS FCI Tan Show CIvil.
But finding a test when a bitch is NOT in heat is a bit harder...

I only do the ATTS because it has a mild protection test for humans that my working LGDS never get to test. Since no one is stupid enough to tresspass on a working farm with loose fenced in working lgds.

Some dogs are ALL that on home turf and turn tail off property.

Either way this test and many others are ONE of many TOOLS a breeder can use to determine breeding and which dogs should be bred to whom.