Things that cause yeast problems...

So, something weird is going on with the Dobermans, and because it's both at once and neither one is eating the same food as the other, it leads me to believe there might be an environmental component that I am missing.

Ripley has been battling skin issues since last November, which we had under control and he looked awesome up until a couple of weeks ago. Now he smells very yeasty, his skin is back to being all flakey, and he's super itchy. Keira also is extremely itchy, has flakey skin and smells very yeasty. I feel so bad for them and just want to fix them. They're miserable I'm sure - they scratch every opportunity they get. And my house currently smells super doggy because they stink right now, so that's not good either.

Can anyone give me any ideas as to what can cause yeast infections? The affected areas are: armpits (both dogs), back (both dogs), and tummy (Keira).

I know grains and carbs promote yeast growth, but what else? Anything environmental? Is there anything I can give them besides an antibiotic/medication to control it? Anything special I should wash them in?

Currently they are getting ACV and fish oils in their food, if that makes a difference/matters at all.

Any help or suggestions are very much appreciated! I just want them to feel better and look good again. I don't even want other people coming over (because they smell bad) or petting them (again, because they smell bad) right now. It's embarrassing. I just gave them a bath last week to see if it would help (in hypoallergenic shampoo), and it did nothing.

I will take them both back to the vet if I have to, but Ripley's been on so many different meds this year and I really don't want to have to put him back on something unless I have to.

I just want healthy looking dogs again. I've never dealt with skin issues in dogs before, so this is all new to me. And getting really, really old, fast. I do everything I can to help them look and feel their best, and they are not reflecting any of that right now.

Hmm... since it was bad last year around this time, and then was gone and then came back... ragweed is the biggest allergy trigger in the fall, and I know it wreaks havoc on Renegade's body (same types of things it does to the dobes).

ETA: I guess that wasn't very helpful There's not much that you can really *do* about it, other than allergy meds. Ren currently lives on Benedryl.

Thanks, Jess. Any ideas help!

Ripley's skin thing could very well be the exact same sort of thing we've been dealing with all year, just presented slightly differently due to another allergen (he does appear to have environmental allergies so that wouldn't surprise me). I just find it odd that Keira suddenly has the same symptoms (perhaps worse) as Ripley when she's never had any problems up until recently.

I'll try giving them both Benedryl for a while and see if it helps at all. It certainly can't hurt anything I wouldn't think.

Yes, grains and carbohydrates. Also an imbalance of bacteria in the gut (often caused by antiobiotics), toxins in processed food and the environment, lack of live enzymes in the food. Yeast is a complicated issue and can be difficult to erradicate.

Jennifer
www.thenaturalcarnivore.com
www.tailcreekmastiffs.com

For Neccy who is super duper allergic any grain, even a crouton sized bite, is enough to kill off the cilia in her gut, which sets up the infection and she has nothing to fight it off with, so the yeast populates and by the time it gets to her skin, she is incredibly ill. I think it effects her cognitive as well as the obvious skin signs. So we avoid at all cost, grains, sugars, and if I am not sure I take no chances. IT takes a good 30 days for her to get her intestinal tract back in order, but when it is, there is no stink, no swelling, no hair loss, and she is bright and happy. I also give her probiotics, some people have suggested cocoanut milk, because it is a natural antifungal, but we haven't needed to go that route. I gave her baths with vinegar rinses, don't use oatmeal soap because it just feeds the yeast monster, we used a shampoo provided by the vet for our best results and did our bathe treatments every 3 days. The hardest part is getting the family on board to leave out no crumbs. My grandson was here today and he had an oreo cookie, I didn't see him drop a part of it when he did, but fortunatly found it before Neccy did. I had to switch everyone including the cat because she is a food thief of great skill. We have for the most part changed our own snacks and such because it is easier than getting Hyia not to spill or drop. It isnt' easy but this is what she has to have to be healthy and happy. Good luck. I sure have become a label reader since she arrived. In the beginning I gave her probiotics and benedryl too, now it is in her dog food so I don't add the supplements.

Regarding the use of benedryl...elimination of the symptom is NOT the same as elimination of the disease. Palliating symptoms instead of removing the causes of the symptom only promotes further disease.

Jennifer
www.thenaturalcarnivore.com
www.tailcreekmastiffs.com

But how does one eliminate the problem if you don't know what's causing the problem? If it is an allergy then they can at least be less miserable while taking Benedryl until a solution is found. Because right now, I don't know what the solution is, but having them like this isn't so great either.

Also, I forgot to add in my previous post:

They get a probiotic in their meals and they do not get a lot of treats and have no access to any of our food. I also wipe them down with vinegar. All of their bedding and stuff that they lay on is washed regularly with unscented products also.

I'd start questioning the dogs' yeast issues individually and work off the assumption that this is just a coinky-dink. If you end up at the same result with both of them, no harm no foul. But you can miss things that one may have been exposed to that the other hasn't when you're under the assumption that they are BOTH reacting to the same exact thing.

I'd still start with food, especially if you changed within the last year. It can take a few months for things to start to build up enough to see something as obvious as yeast on the skin. What are they currently on?

A lot of meds could turn off the immune system to a point and encourage the growth of yeast. Yogurt and probiotics to eliminate that possibility, definitely. To inhibit the yeast on the skin for both dogs, I'd suggest rubbing them down with a vinegar/water-soaked rag. Somewhere between 1/8 to 1/16th mix, depending on how strong the yeast is. You can start lower and work your way up if you don't see results. But the higher concentration you go, the more likely it might dry out their skin...and that causes more issues. Overusing vinegar in high concentration will cause MORE issues.

Environment...I'd look for anything that would promote yeast growth. Wet and warm are typical. Wet towels, wet beds, sudden humidity spike in the weather, rainy weather, etc. Are they dried completely after they are bathed, or do you let them air dry? Did you recently turn on the heat in your house? If you did, have you changed the filter this year, yet? Check your weather. Have any pollen alerts?

"Grass rust", it's what's giving Jinj H*** right now! It was the only time before he's ever had these issues of chewing the daylights out of his feet till they're near bald and blood red with yeasty build up, we had it really bad one year, and this year it's pretty bad again. I don't know what else to call it or what it's name it, I believe it's a fungus, but it looks like rust like you would see on metal, spotted across the blades of grass giving it an orange color, not "dead brown" but a bright orange. I can take a picture if anyone wants? I think it's still out there after the last lawn mowing.

Like I said, yeast is a complicated issue! Allergies do not cause yeast overgrowth. When I see a yeast overgrowth I know without a doubt there is an imbalance of bacteria in the intestinal tract and that the immune system is not functioning at the level it should. These are the core causes of yeast overgrowth and the barriers that prevent eradication of the yeast.

How to eliminate the problem? The basics - stop feeding any type of processed foods, instead feel a natural species appropraite diet, replenish the bacteria in the gut and support the immune system....

Jennifer
www.thenaturalcarnivore.com
www.tailcreekmastiffs.com

Allergies CAN cause yeast overgrowth where yeast was already present. Particularly if the dog is having a strong autoimmune response or the skin has been broken or damaged from constant irritation like scratching or rubbing - a perfect spot for bacterial and fungal growth to occur and spread.

Thanks, those are good points! It's easy to get caught up in two dogs having the same symptoms and trying to find a commonality between them. But it could very well be a coincidence.

I had switched Keira to Acana Duck & Pear a couple of months ago. She'd been eating Pacifica for most of her life so I was excited to find another food she could eat without any digestive upset. But, because the Duck & Pear has some grain, I took her off of it just in case it was the trigger. And based on time frame, it might have been. Right now she's eating Orijen 6 Fish because I know she does well on fish, but Orijen does have potato so not sure if it will help anything or not. And Ripley is on his last bag of Acana Ranchlands, which he's been eating for a while, but they recently changed their formulas so there has been change there regardless of formula. He also had one bag of California Natural Venison in August. Over the last three years he's eaten: Acana Adult, Lamb & Apple, Wild Prairie, Grasslands and Ranchlands (not because of issues - just for variety) plus the one bag of Cal Nat. But regardless of what he eats, his skin and coat never seem to change.

I am thisclose to just calling it quits on all kibble though and putting them on raw as well. The only reason I haven't is because neither seems to tolerate raw chicken very well and other proteins are a lot more expensive, but if it fixes the problem then it'd be worth it.

I do make sure the vinegar is diluted. I don't actually measure out ratios, but it's a little bit of vinegar and mostly water. And I think I mentioned above, probably while you were also posting, that they get a probiotic.

Ripley does sleep on wet bedding to an extent every day, which sucks. He is a blanket sucker so he gets them all wet and then has to lay on wet blankets while we're at work and he's in his crate. But I can't not give him blankets because that's uncomfortable and I don't want him to get callouses or anything. With that said though, I think it's mostly the front part of his body that lays in wet blankets and aside from the armpits, that's not where the problem is. Could be a factor, though. Keira does not lay in wet bedding at all. The air here is pretty dry and I haven't noticed a humidity increase. They get gently towel dried and then are left to air dry after a bath, but I could blow dry them. Just feels like a waste of time since their hair is so short, but you're right, yeast feeds on moisture.

Filter on the furnace has already been changed before we turned the heat on last month. Not sure about pollen alerts, but probably... there's usually something on there. I'll look tonight.

"Allergies" are simply another symptom of immune system problems. A dog with an unhealthy immune system can present with allergies, yeast overgrowth, hot spots, MSRA and many other skin issues. Animals with healthy immune systems will not experience any of these conditions.

Jennifer
www.thenaturalcarnivore.com
www.tailcreekmastiffs.com

I think it's the food. I think your girl is reacting to the oats, which has been my theory for most active dogs the last few years. If your boy has ever been on those foods, could be him too. But I think it's more potato/peas and his meds on top of it.

Look at this trend in the foods you listed:

Acana Duck and Pear has oats in the ingredients.
Acana Large Breed Adult has oats.
Lamb and Apple has oats.

Pacifica has peas and potato.
California Natural Venision has both potato and peas.
Wild Prairie has both potato and peas.
Grasslands has both potato and peas.
Ranchlands has both potato and peas.
Orijen 6 Fish has both potato and peas.

"Allergies" is actually an autoimmune response to food that the body does not recognize, such as grains and some carbs, like Oats, Peas, and Potato. It's more of an intolerance than an actual "allergy". Similar things happen when you get sick with a virus or you react to an environmental allergy. It's an autoimmune response.

Any dog, with any immune system, can experience hot spots, MSRA, and other skin issues such as yeast. I am a supporter of Raw and BARF....but it isn't a Hail Mary. I've seen just has many dogs with skin issues on Raw as I have on kibble. It's down to the individual dog, not JUST the food.

I'm not a raw feeder, but I think you should try raw if it's at all possible. I think the food is a likely culprit.

When an immune system turns against the host, that is not a sign on health... Raw vs kibble is most definately not the only thing that has the ability to affect the health of our animals. However, a proper diet is the foundation of good health! It is the lifestyle of each individual dog and how that dog's body deals with the typical daily onslaught of toxins, chemicals, pathogens etc that they are exposed to.

Cheers!

Jennifer
www.thenaturalcarnivore.com
www.tailcreekmastiffs.com

Allergies absolutely can cause yeast overgrowth (as well as bacteria overgrowths). It all depends how your pet responds to the irritants.

Can't post more right now, at work on cell.

Autoimmune response happens regardless of health. Not because the host is unhealthy. A proper diet helps, yes, but again. Raw isn't a hail mary and it isn't going to solve everything. Especially if the allergy happens to be environmental despite the consistency of ingredients in the food the OP has fed. These are actually VERY high quality kibbles. I think it's more of a reaction to a certain ingredient rather than the kibble just because it's kibble.

Yes, those are definitely all equations. Finding a kibble without any of those things is tough, and the one I did try resulted in terrible diarrhea and vomiting, so we went back to Acana as it does work for them in every other way and until the skin issues started popping up, there were no issues. I just find it odd that their issues are more noticeable in the fall (and in Keira's case, she's almost 5yrs old and this is the first time she's ever had an issue)... but if a food is bothering them to begin with, and then you add a fall irritant on top of that, I suppose you could see what I am seeing now.

Thanks for writing that out. It's actually different to see it listed and compared like that. I think my first step is going to be to remove kibble all together before doing anything else and go from there. I don't believe raw is necessarily the be all and end all, but at least it's a good way to start simple and control what is and is not in their diets.