when is enough?

how do you know when you have trained enough for now?
do you go by the 15 minute rule, or just when you can tell you dog looks like he has had enough.

when taking Ruckus out to practice out obeisance i am not sure when is a good time to stop. after a while Ruckus gets a glazed look about him and just isn't doing as well, so i call it quits. i cant even tell you how many minutes at a time we train... i just stop when i think he has had enough.
should i be timing it in 15 minute sessions?

btw- we are practicing come, and doing some leash work (180 degree turns running when he isn't paying attention, etc) there is quit a bit of running involved.

You want to stop BEFORE they get that glazed, unfocused look. Always try to end on a good note.

I usually stop with Ripley after 15-20 minutes and let him fool around for a bit. He can't stand being serious for very long. Dakota can train for hours before he gets tired of it. Just depends on the dog.

With puppies, I keep practice sessions very short and informal. A sit here and there, a little bit of heeling down the hallway, etc. Most of the pups and adolescents don't have the attention span to work constantly for 15-20 minutes at a time. (I say most because I've met quite a few babies who would work all day)

when i took him to obideance class he worked happily for 45 minutes! but here at home he seems to want to work about 30ish. i guess thats good.

i think i worked him to hard just a minute ago. he got glazed, and i took him in.. now he is sleeping on the sofa.

I think that's your problem right there. You shouldn't train to the point where your dog is bored - I'd stop long before that.
The length of time you practice isn't nearly as important as the quality of each session!! I'd rather practice commands twice and end the training session with the pup/dog still eager and having fun. Remember you can practice numerous times throughout the day and IMO have better results than one long 20 minute session (this is especially true with puppies). I also think that as handlers, we stay more upbeat and positive if we train in short sessions and are less likely to just go through the motions!

Obviously, I'm new - (haven't even had time to introduce myself) so I do not know your pup's history... But I really think that depends on your training style and goals but also at what level your dog is at right now! In my case, Dodger and I are preparing for competitive OB classes in January - we practice straight fronts, dumbell work and attention daily but no more than 5 times each session, 2 or 3 times a day (usually only once per day)..now that might mean it takes us another year to get in the ring but I want the foundations to be solid AND I want Dodger to be having fun. So I'd rather take things slowly.... I have no doubts he could handle a more intense schedule but I do not want either of us getting bored!

I personally find that classes are different because we tend to reward a lot for basic behaviours because its a distracting environment. Class might be an hour long but since we often have to wait our turn or listen while the trainer explains a drill, we are really only working for a fraction of that time. I think the average dog is unlikely to "glaze over" in class because there is so much else to take in (and usually quite a few different exercises)! Also whenever you are introduced to a new command in class, your dog won't fully grasp it in class (that comes with practice at home) so training in classes is less challenging for the dog (unless your dog is too distracted but we tend to combat that with extra rewards!)

I personally think that 30 mintues at one time is too long unless there's lots of tugging-play time as rewards and lots of different commands being practiced. What you don't want is a dog that just goes through the motions, ends on a bad note or starts to dislike training (out of boredom, lack of confidence or repetitiveness). So if your dog is still going strong at 20 minutes, end there and fit in another session later when you've both had time to take a break!!!!

whoa, thanks lissa!
now i know im such a noob at this!

No you aren't - I'm sure you and Ruckus are great... I tend to take things slow and in small amounts because I have a hound...Dogs that live to work with their people might need longer sessions for all I know!! !!

Ruckus is independent and doesnt like to please much. i will start doing shorter sessions.