Planning to stud, advice?

I agree the advice has been bang on. As for the question 'why do want to breed', that is a very valid question. Especially considering that most of the responses to that question are: 'just to have puppies', give the kids the experience of birth' etc.
As a breeder it is also one of the questions that I ask when people want to breed to my stud. And I ask that question, even when the bitch is a proven working dog, has Titles/Championships AND has all the genetic testing done.
Breeding is a serious responsiblity even for the stud dog owner. Kudos to you for looking for info first, by the time your little guy COULD be breed, hopefully you will have obtain the correct information from mentors etc to know whether he SHOULD be breed or not.

Good luck and Take care
Lynn

I agree with SpringerLover. Conformation is fine and dandy but I want to see more in a Malinois than a champion title. This originated as a working breed and should remain so IMHO. In a breed like this I don't consider a conformation championship to be conclusive proof of breedworthiness.

Have you considered doing herding with Westin? What about ringsport, or agility? You will run into more Malinois at performance events than you will at a dog park - see if there is an agility trial in your area.

West - i have not read this whole thread through fully as of yet.

So.. if I repeat anything.. sorry ahead of time..

BUT .. omg..

Firstly I have a few questions before I have a heart attack from what i'm reading..

1 - Do you do ANYTHING with your Mal in a competative notion? Do you compete in Obedience, Conformation, Agility, Shutzhund, Tracking, Herding, SAR, Etc etc.

2 - How old IS your Mal?

3- Does your Mal have his OFA or CERF done?

4- Did you get your Mal from a PROFESSIONAL breeder(NOT a BYB)?

5- Does your Mal conform to the breed standard?

6- Does your Mal have any temperment problems? Ie.- TOO protective, very flightly, works before asking you etc etc..

..

right now the ONLY advice I can offer you is DO NOT OFFER YOUR MAL STUD TO A DIFFERENT BREED OF BITCH!!

I own a Terv male right now and I wouldn't even dream of putting him up for stud until he has his Can CH title, at least his CD obedience title, Hes getting Temperment Tested for his TT title this summer. He will also be getting his OFA and CERF testings done this summer. THEN if he passes all of these criteria I may speak with the breeder that I got him from and ask her professional opinion on wether or not its worth putting him up for stud. There are SO many things you need to learn before putting your dog up for stud. THere are diseases your stud dog can catch FROM other bitches that haven't been tested for specific things - NOT just a regular vet check. Your stud dog can cause severe harm to a bitch as well by not preforming correctly and getting her in other places -which in turn can cause damage for her AND your male.

Having a rarer breed - You'd think you want to KEEP that breed rare. NOT mix breed it like the poodle has been SOO overly mixed bred its unreal. Did you know that the Belgian Mal is put on the "up and coming" Breed ban list?! Do you want to have it actually MAKE the list by having a horrible bred pup(to either a missfit bitch or to a mixed breed bitch).

I'm am however extremely intersted in your answers to the questions I have asked. If you dont know what some of them mean I'd be more then happy to explain them. Even if you dont feel the need to post publically here, you can PM me.

West. First let me say thank you for taking the time to come here and ask about this before stepping into the world of breeding. That shows how much you care. I have two beautiful ACDs who I think are the two greatest in the world however I do not feel the need to reproduce them because of that reason or because no one here has them. In fact quite the opposite. I like having a chance to be asked and talk about their breed. My two however are not good specimens for breeding. Whiskey may actually surpass the intelligence that is known to this breed and his coloring is great but his height and head are off if this makes sense to you. His metal characteristics are right on breed wise but his physical are not. When breeding you want a dog that has the best is all. You want a dog with no health flaws and yours is too young to know this for sure yet. If you would like to become a good breeder then do your homework and learn everything you can and breed good , quality, champions. The world as it is now has too many dogs bred because someone wanted more of their kind. Your passion for the breed is great. I always love to hear people think their dog or dog breed is the best and why.
Talk about all you learn here about your dog and tell us here why we would want to own this breed. Never just assume your dog is breed quality because most are not. This is a special field and requires much knowledge and income to be a good responsible breeder. We have way to many BYB ers and ones for profit in the world now. Hats off to you if you go on to breed responsibly. As for me ?? I will just remain an owner of great dogs.

Hi West. You've been given some great advice. Hope you find someone great, in your area, to mentor you. That's an excellent first step. I was hesitant to respond for the very reason you stated. If you tell someone wanting to breed their dog that it's not breeding stock, but rather pet quality, they assume you're saying there's something wrong with their dog. All of my dogs are equally as beautiful, intellegent and as valuable to me, as the next. But only one is being shown. I've neutered my pets between 9 and 12 months of age. The one being shown may or may not turn out to be breed worthy. Time will tell. Being shown, for me, means in conformation as well as obedience. Physical quality, health and temperament are important. There are too many outstanding specimens of my other breed though, for me to breed my pets. Wanting a companion/playmate for your dog is understandable and that would be different, were you to get a second dog. Again, Mals' are not rare. They are a lot of dog though and anyone contemplating breeding them should know everything there is to know about the breed, about breeding and have a dog that really is promoting the best of that particular breed. Good luck.

Well I have to say I will NEVER stud my dogs out again.
When someone else uses your stud you are getting into "bed" with them.
And they may seem to have ethics but often money talks.
Thus they may breed dogs that are not correct for breeding and use your name and your work in your stud to get sales and to not keep the bar you have elevated once you PROVE your stud.

Things can go wrong when they find excuses to breed any dog from a litter your dog is stud for.

Not that this happens often but in rare breeds, I went from wanting to only have females to have to keep 3 outcross non related males of my own and to prove each and every one of them. This cost tons however much less heartache not to have to be connected with breeders who do not have great ethics.

I cant get specific but small rare breed world.

I believe stud dog owners are in part in charge of making sure the pups find good homes and assisting the breeder in possible rescue of said pups.

West - At the risk of sounding "snippy" ...

As a performance dog enthusiast, let me tell you that no serious Malinois person is going to want to use an unproven stud. (By proven, I don't mean proven to be able to throw live puppies, but proven to excel in every area.) People who want to keep the breed true are going to ask you the same question that people have asked you here: "What has he done to prove himself worthy of perpetuating the breed?" They are going to want to see that he's got the body and the brains to perform as a Malinois should.

Using my breed as an example here. If I were to go looking for a stud dog, I would give the most consideration to a dog that has been titled in conformation and at least one working area. The APBT (like the Malinois) was bred to be a top-notch athlete. Then I would want to know if the dog has rated at least a Good on their hips, and clear on their cardiac.

Flat-out, there's no reason to breed a pet. If you are not seriously looking to prove your dog and improve your breed, then you're best off leaving the breeding to someone who is. Owning a stud dog is far more than letting your boy party one weekend and collecting the fee. You contribute half the genetics, both good and bad. (You're also half-responsible for the litter and what happens to it, at least IMO.)

Unfortunatly malinois are not rare at all -- the reason you do not see any is that the majority of them are in shelters all over North America. They are the most common of the Belgian varieties, the most common to end up in shelters and rescues, and the most common to be on breed ban lists. You have NO idea how many groenendael and tervuren breeders I've talked to who've told me they switched varieities because they felt too horrible breeding malinois when there were so many dying in shelters. Fact is, there is not a huge demand for malinois. I have found homes for several malinois in just the past few months. I currently have two friends fostering a malinois each, and one friend who has rescued 3 in just the past three months. There are a number of "working dog" puppy mills, and since malinois are a very high drive working breed, they are often most targeted and bred and sold unscrupulously.

So before you bring another litter of malinois into the world, you need to ask yourself if you are comfortable with the fact that you are now adding to a population of dogs that is not only already overwhelming, but unwanted. I am not saying breeding malinois is a bad thing -- I breed Belgians (groenendael) -- I am just saying that if you are going to do it, you have to keep an ethical standpoint and breed only the best dogs you can while helping with breed rescue.

I have a male I planned to stud but unfortunatly I feel he will not improve the breed and thus he is going to be neutered and kept as my pet and sporting dog. It is unfortunate, my long awaited plans did not fall through...But sometimes it's best to put away what isn't good enough and just wait for something better to come along.

Which kennel did you buy Westin from?

Very good Post Wolfsoul

I need to jump in here. There are many, MANY Malinois in rescue. Malinois rescue is full to the brim and always rescuing more Malinois. Of all the four varieties of Belgians, the Malinois is the most popular, and the most over-bred. Do a search for Malinois rescue and you'd be surprise at how much you will find.

Someone mentioned Bellwood/Excalibur Malinois - WHEN I get a Mal, it will be from them, or imported from overseas from a line that will compliment theirs. Both ladies are friends of mine and have wonderfully beautiful Mals and care deeply for their breed.

If you want your dog to breed, you need to show him, and show him, and show him. Prove him by winning, and winning and winning. Compete in obedience, trial in herding trials, title him. Get him out where other breeders will see him. Prove his correctness of structure, his stability of temperament, his drive and workability. When he turns two, health test him - OFA hips and elbows, CERF eyes, and I believe the Malinois have a higher risk of thyroid disorders, so have his thyroid tested and OFA'd. Become a member of the ABMC (American Belgian Malinois Club - http://www.american-belgian-malinois-club.org/). Find a mentor, LEARN about your breed. Owning a stud is a huge responsibility because you too will need to know pedigrees and health issues in different lines to make good breeding decisions, and yes, those decision are yours to make. If someone approaches you with a bitch whose lines are full of health issues, you need to be educated enough to say no to that breeding.

I'm in Canada where all four varieties are one breed - and all four varieties are near and dear to my heart.

Charlotte, since you are friends with Bellwood Malinois -- could you tell me, did they ever breed groenendael? There is a Bellwood dog in Visa's pedigree I have never been able to get any info on.

Yes, they breed Groenendael and Malinois.