How does someone deal with breeding with animals peeing there mark on your furniture?

That's the whole point. As an adult of course you don't need permission, but you should make an informed decision after researching and hearing first hand experiences from reputable breeders.

As mentioned, you won't make any money of a dog that's not AKC registered and no titles. And if you do, it will be a BYB'ing.

It's frusterating that comment.

I'm not sure if you know, but the statistics for homeless dogs is absurd in the US! It seems as though your more worried about your home smelling funky than the lives of possible puppies, that may end up in shelters, have serious health issues etc.

Leave breeding up to those who KNOW THE BREED. And have known the breed for years!

Do you know what a pug is supposed to look like? According to the breed standard?

I assume that you would be breeding only for "pet value", whilst many repuatable breeders, will have a few "pet value" pups per litter. That will have had all the proper health testing done before breeding.

*sigh* I can't imagine wanting to breed. Perhaps my guys are just babied more than they should be, and I spend too much time with them and MONEY on them! But, to have 4 or 6 or 8 little ones! And pay for the vet bills, say if anything went wrong, to feed them quality food, to make sure they all went to good homes...

Sorry, just not for me! Too much responsibility! I'll admit it! I wouldn't want to worry about my puppies ending up in shelters and getting euthanized!

It happened with the man who bred Hades. When they were little and before they were born, everyone wanted a pit from the litter! And they were going to pay $500 a pup!

Did it happen!??! Heck no. He ended up giving them all away, no shots and near the end was feeding them doggie biscuits for food because he couldnt' afford to buy food anymore....

But it's so clear you DON'T.

Trust me, it is VERY apparent to us when someone knows their stuff. For one, they don't come on threads like this asking rudimentary questions. They know bloodlines. They rattle off their dog's accomplishments and hip ratings like a proud parent relates a child's high SAT score. And we actively ENCOURAGE them to breed, because we know such people are scholars of their breed, and will do right by any living creatures they produce.

I've been in my breed for nearly ten years, and have YET to breed a litter on my own.I co-own my bitch with the breeder, and she took care of EVERYTHING. I got the fun part- getting to babysit the litter when she was off to the National Specialty, but it is hardly all fun and games. I've been studying these dogs for YEARS and I still realize I have a lot to learn before I undertake breeding my own litter. Anyone who tells you it's "easy and fun," isn't doing it right.

And age has zip to do with whether or not you're ready to breed. I'm 22, and I've been in this breed for nearly half my life. I know people my age who have bred champion sired litters, and then gone on to pilot the puppies to championships as well. It's about EXPERIENCE. And having the humility to realize when you need more in order to do something right.

Of course you don't have to ask permission to do this. It IS your life. But at the same time... realize that this isn't just about you and what you want. When you breed dogs you are CREATING lives, and you should be as responsible for those as you would be your own children.

I'm certainly not saying that you should NEVER breed- more that you should take a good, long look at what's TRULY involved in doing this right, and then decide if it's worth the effort. Sure, it's easy to half-a** this stuff. But you know what's NOT easy? Losing a bitch in labor. Watching puppies develop PRA at 1 or 2 years of age. Knowing your dog with luxating patellas is in pain. Knowing that those patellas have more than likely been passed on to puppies, whose OWN owners will now have to deal with expensive surgery, (purely because the breeder was too selfish to do what was right by their dog, and just wanted puppies, and wanted them now).

You've heard the old adage that anything worth doing is worth doing well?

This is definitely one of those cases. I am ALL FOR you getting involved in the breeding of Pugs. As long as you're an asset, not a detriment to the breed. Lots of puppymills and backyard breeders produce these guys, so it's not like there's a shortage of pugs out there.

Maybe it's just how I'm reading it, but it seems like you're adverse to the idea of waiting, studying under a knowledgeable mentor, showing, and the myriads of health tests good breeders do in order to be sure they're breeding only the best specimens. If so, I'd like you to take a look at the thread on here about the girl who bred her underage, untested Chihuaha. Hers is the reality of people who breed without studying first.

Lets talk about the straight facts of having an intact dog around who has been bred (and lets for get about health test BYB's etc) an intact dog is a pain because if he smells a bitch in heat he will try to escape. An intact dog is more likely to challenge your authrity, have behavior problems etc.

A dog who has been bred is a real nightmare. Even if you neuter him, after he has been bred he will do ANYTHING to get to a bitch. He will escape, making his chances to get hit by a car go up greatly, he will usually hump everything insight if he smells a bitch.

We had a neighbor who mated her dog once then neutered him. Well anytime a bitch is in heat he will happily join the pack and will fight any male that gets near the bitch and I have SEEN him mate the bitch and tie.

Its horrible having sex deprived intact male around, which is why I own females, and why I will be spaying her so I dont ever have to deal with those crazy male hormones!

kittypup the point is you learn adn THEN buy a breeding quality dog. You don't get the dog and then hope it'll turn out breedable.

If you want to breed in the future I suggest studying the breed for years,going to shows,talking to other(good) breeders,jsut completely immersing yourself in the breed. that also menas getting involved with breed rescue and knowing ever good adn bad thing about that breed.

Afte rdoing this you probally will realize good breeding will mean you loose money and you may rethink it. But whatever you do you need mroe than the time it takes this dog to mature to be ready to breed.

The folks here give some great advice..............i was also naive to breeding and the reasons why you shouldn't unless you know what your doing and you have a "show" quality dog.
I listened and learned a whole lot.
I must admit that at 1st i felt like i had been pounced on by a flock of mad people J/k but i took the time to really understand what i was being told without feeling like a chastised child.

I still haven't had Bailey neutured.........he is 18 months old and has never Marked in the house
I plan on having him fixed just as soon as funds allow.

Lizzie , I never had any problems with my males , and all of them ( except Chip ) had been used as stud.

I know every male bred does not turn into psycho dog, but for the unexperienced breeder, do they really want to take the chance that her sweet beloved pup will completely change?

Also, there was a post today on one of my other board, about a pug who was bred and he ended up with a doggy STD that ended up killing him. Its not a pretty story.

And to speak money wise, what is the most a person will get for an untested, unproven, and unregistered stud? About 50 bucks maybe less. I doubt anyone will give you pick of the litter because a mediocre stud is not worth giving away a pup for. Besides, IMO pugs can be downright horrible looking creatures when they get into the hands of irresponsible breeders.

Tempura Tantrum- I like what you have to say. I as well am young (25), and though I do not have the experience you do, I have found the breed I want to have for life.

And I totally understand where you're coming from- I know Orchid's lines backwards and forwards- but even so there is still so much to learn! There are so many genetic problems to be avoided.

Even if two dogs are champions the puppies can still turn out poorly. You really have to know what you're doing, and that's not something that age teaches. It is all about experience.

To the OP, I hope you keep and open mind when you read these things, and realize that people here are concerned for the welfare of the animals that you will be breeding.

No one meant to hurt your feelings or offend you, but I guarentee that most of these posters had a horrific scene of back yard bred pugs with lots of health problems going to pet homes flashing through their minds.

In your shoes, I'd rather have a forum that preaches caution then one that will tell you to breed any dog at any time just for the sake of it. At least this way you are getting all of the potential outcomes.

IF you are not ready to hear that things may not turn out well for you or your dog if you do breed, then you are not ready to take that next step into becoming a breeder.

It seems like this woman is going to breed her dog (if that's what she ends up doing) regardless of what any of us say. There are thousands of homeless dogs that need to be adopted/rescued and she's worried about breeding her pug to get money. The pug is a puppy first of all, to young to even think if he's worth breeding. It hasn't had any health checks. We don't know what the parents may have had, what the pedigree is, if he is going to be shown or titled in anything or if she's willing to spend the money to do any of these things. Is the pug registered? Will she get the necessary health checks done when it's 2 years old? Will he be titled/shown/etc (to prove he/she's worthy of being bred)? Will the pup even be within the breeds conformation standards? Can you afford to breed/raise/vaccinate puppies? Can you afford a C-section if needed? Or is your only worry "will it spray my home"? It sounds like you don't want to learn and just want to recoup your "monetary loss of $900" by becoming a back yard breeder.

For your dogs sake and any puppies that may come of an unhealthy, unproven, untitled dog(s), I hope you don't.

No owner of a female pug will seek her male out if they have any sense at all. If you are only out for $25 -$50 ,stud fee , why bother !!

BTW.... is this the pup that was 12 weeks old when you joined here last month ??

Might be just another "troll patrol".

Well I think that kittypup may well have decided to leave this board because of some of the things said and that's a shame, because she didn't seem to get that breeding is not about HER life or HER house or HER money but the fact that she'll be responsible for bringing another four to seven pups into a world so chock-full of homeless, abused and unwanted dogs it defies belief.

I think everyone had the right to say what they did and I just hope she does come back and learn even more and realise that breeding for profit, or for any other reason than a genuine desire to better the breed you have chosen is just plain WRONG.

God there are few things that make me madder than the `if I wanna do it you can't stop me' argument. Its such an immature thing to say and she just doesn't seem to get why its wrong, and why people get frustrated because its about animal WELFARE not trying to stop someone from mating their dog. Oh rant rant I could go on for hours....lol

So true , Ruby .. We may seem to be too harsh here, but I know of at least 3 who stuck with us and changed their mind after seeing our posts !! Even one can save many,many pups !!

It's so great to "meet" like-minded "young-uns!" I'm used to people thinking I'm an absolute nutjob for being so obsessed with everything Shiba at such a young age, that it's always fun to find a kindred spirit!

I actually looked into Keeshonden before I decided on Shibas . I love their faces, particularly their "spectacles." They remind me of raccoons. (I should be slapped for saying that, considering I can't stand when people say "oh your dogs look just like little foxes!!!")

While it's frustrating that the OP has most likely left- one thing we can all count on is that she at least *saw* the information. People are just too curious to simply never return to a post they made, so while she may never be active on the board again, at least we've said our piece.

Ruby, I'm in complete agreement with you. It's absolutely bizarre to me that people come on here, and then get pissed (if you'll excuse the language), when we don't tell them EXACTLY what they want to hear. Why are people so surprised??? When you ask PERSONAL opinions, do you not expect that that IS what you're going to get?

And Grammy you're right- no one's going to actively search out an un-tested, unknown pug for use at stud. The money she may get for stud service will HARDLY cover what it's going to cost to replace carpets that smell like urine . And as far as peace of mind goes...$25-$50 isn't even close to recooping the hours of wishing you owned anything but an intact male dog when a bitch is in season.

Pure selfishness.

Why does it seem like humanity has gone from seeing what we can do to *improve* the lives of fellow creatures, to just doing whatever we **** well please because "we *deserve* to be happy?" Even if it means our happiness comes at the expense of another living creature?

Kittypup, if you're still reading this . . .

If you're serious about breeding your pug, make sure you show him first to make sure he is an excellent example of the breed. However, if he isn't AKC registered, I'm not sure if it's possible. (I'm not familiar with whatever ACA is.) If it isn't possible to show him, you might as well neuter him right away, as responsible breeders will not be interested in him.

Also, test for ALL health problems when he's old enough to breed. (This often requires specific tests, not just the vet saying "yep, he's a healthy dog.") I think pugs tend to have respiratory problems, I'm not sure what else. Eye problems? Hip problems? If he has health issues, don't breed him even if he DOES conform perfectly to breed standards--you will be passing along health problems to the puppies!

Do a LOT of research first. Find a mentor who shows and breeds pugs responsibly. If your dog is breed-worthy, make sure the female is too and that they will compliment each other, don't breed him to Random Pug Down the Street. Only breed him to better the breed. Otherwise, please neuter him.

How did I miss this thread

I think everyone has said what needs to be said, BUT I can say from EXPERIENCE that intact male pugs are VERY prone to urinary marking. It is common for them to mark their owner as well.:yikes: I see this happen all the time when people are waiting ringside at the shows...and the owner/handler doesn't even know the litter bugger got them LOL! Seriously though, male pugs are BIG markers once they reach maturity and all the breeders I know have to crate them when they can't be watched or put them in a belly band. Heck, my neutered male loves to try and mark!

From what I've read of this thread it sounds to me like Kittypup isn't planning on breeding in the near future and she wants to gather as much information as possible before she makes a decision. What else can we ask for? Implying that she is a troll is out of line.

It also sounds to me that english is a second language for kittypup and if that's true she might be living in an area where dogs are regarded in a different manner. Who knows but it might be worthwhile to ask these questions first.

I'm pretty sure she's in America as she said she had looked into registering with the American Kennel Club but learned you can't register with them unless the dog's parents were AKC registered.

Now I remember why I left this forum.