Happy Dog or Not

I'm hoping I didn't do something wrong, and I strongly believe I did not, but Pit is very much like you described.

I didn't train him to be calm all the time, but he turned out that way for some reason. He doesn't get excited when people come over, he prefers not to go meet new dogs (although his breed is aloof, so that's fine) but he also doesn't get excited when I come home from a long day of being away. He doesn't get excited to go for walks, to go for car rides, to see people he hasn't seen in a long time.. he's just very calm.

That being said, he was that way right from the start as an 8 week old puppy. This puppy had NO desire to be a puppy, no matter how much I tried to encourage it.

He has moments of life, like when we play fetch in the river, or the first while of being let off leash with Zero, so he's not a zombie or anything. But I think if I had actually trained him to be calm, he could probably be one of those dogs you described that is always calm.

I don't doubt he's a happy dog. I don't know how happy he'd be if he never got to show excitement.

Bronki was a calm dog. He was a deep thinker, slow to respond and really cared not for anyone but me. Company did not interest him in the least. HE was well behaved to a t, and like Mary there was very little training to it. THere is nothing wrong with that either.

To me training classes should not do that. Kaiden has taken soooo many training classes.. and he is still a bouncy exuberant boy! Training, in and of itself won't make a dog not express itself.

It will if the owner of the dog uses it improperly

It will if the owner of the dog uses it improperly

Well, sure but anything will be bad if used improperly. I've been in a minimum of one training class a week (either agility and/or obedience) every single week since about 3 weeks after I got Meg. That's three years. Am I "over-doing" it?

Some people who only see her in certain situations may think she's being 'over-trained', although I hope nobody ever looks at her and thinks she unexcited by life. I took her to the Little League field last night when there were a million kids/dogs/adults running around like lunatics, and trained a bit. Heeling, laying quietly, not getting up when people walked by, etc. I don't want her getting up and trying to visit every human who walks by, so I'm training her not to. But it's a behavior she's learning to perform, not an attitude adjustment I'm trying to create.

So I guess what I'm saying is - if you are thinking about a particular dog you know, how often do you see the dog and in how many different situations? If you are asking in general, I absolutely think that some types of training can create a shut-down, unhappy dog very easily. I also think there are some amazingly well-trained dogs who adore their lives and their work, and who may never go great people or other dogs because it's been trained into them. They are often the same dogs who I see doing all their obedience "in drive", like the enthusiasm Lyric clearly showed in his training. Prompt obedience and good behavior don't have to mean shut-down and unhappy.

No I would not consider your regiment to be over-doing it. I see agility classes as benificial for the dogs mental and physical stimulation. I am taking it that your dog is a more high energy dog that benifits from that sort of training.

There is a difference between a dog that gets punished for not "behaving" to the extreme expectations of its owner(s) and a dog that has a job it enjoys doing and that it was trained to do in a positive manner.

lol i spent most of steve's hour-long agility class last night working on teaching him to be calm and thoughtful in the face of something EXTREMELY exciting to him (ie running dogs).

But to have a dog that just lays there like a rock and has no zest for life is not right. Might as well just trade in that miserable dog for a patio stone.

I am confused...

First off you seemed to be saying over training was bad... But now you are saying it ok.

You can get that in a dog with only a few 'training' sessions if you are harsh enough and your dog is not overly 'hard'... it has nothing to do with amount of training. A single bad class has the pontential to shut down a dog.... Where as a lifetime of good classes never will.

A calm dog is a comfort and it doesn't mean they are lacking anything their exuberant cousins lack. Once a dog came in city market and put his nose right where he shouldn't. His owner talked away to me and i am watching Bronki. HE is so pissed he is vibrating but he waited and it went away..and he looked at me with a tail thump. He just took things in stride. HE was incredible. A piece of my heart died with him.