Snake owners: tell me about them.
- Thread starter GlassOnion
- Start date
Are you talking rats or mice??
My males do not stink (yet, not sure if they will).
From what I've been told, males are love bugs. Females, not so much because they have each other, and you'll always be second to their mouse friends.
But you become your buck's WORLD.
This is what I've been told.
Mouse poop isn't all that bad. It's definitely not as bad as gecko poop.
My males do not stink (yet, not sure if they will).
From what I've been told, males are love bugs. Females, not so much because they have each other, and you'll always be second to their mouse friends.
But you become your buck's WORLD.
This is what I've been told.
Mouse poop isn't all that bad. It's definitely not as bad as gecko poop.
Some people prefer males. Males tend to get more attached to their people because "we" are their only companions/family.
I forgot to mention. Some male mice like to mark their humans. I know a few people on mouse forums who have sweatshirts that they wear only when handling their male mice. Because their pee can be stinky.
And males can be neutered. So that cuts back on marking as well.
And I have heard of females living alone. Mainly because of a behavior issue, such as they don't "play well with others". They do fine. But they need lots of interaction and toys.
But I think in the end. If you just want one mouse. I would go with a male.
They are fun. And easy to train.
The only downside to petstore male mice. Is that they are all kept in a tank full of other males where they are bullied and beat up. Some can come home and be sweet as can be. Just thrilled to have their own space. But some come home with aggression issues. It doesent happen that often but it can happen.
If you decide you want a male mouse. I would look into breeders to be honest. That way you know that they are already hand tame and socialized with people.
If you can't find a breeder. I would atleast get one from a Petco or Petsmart where they keep males and females seperated. I then would ask to handle the male your interested in. To see how hand tame he is or not.
Gotta mention! My females are love bugs. They all three beg to be picked up when I walk in my room. Its pretty cute to see three little mice with their paws up on the side of the tank hopping up and down with excitement. Tiva (my brindle) especially is bonded to me. She is also the biggest.
Tiva about two weeks ago was in her runaround ball. The lid popped off (my fault, I didn't tape it) and I saw her little butt scurry out. I got off my couch and knelt down with my hand out and called her. (All three of my mice recognize their names. I have been working with them on that from day one). She came running right back to me and right onto my hand! Very smart girl
Indie my mismarked girl is my "lap sitter". She loves to run around. But she also loves to sit on my stomach or shoulder and brux and clean herself (a sign of trust).
I forgot to mention. Some male mice like to mark their humans. I know a few people on mouse forums who have sweatshirts that they wear only when handling their male mice. Because their pee can be stinky.
And males can be neutered. So that cuts back on marking as well.
And I have heard of females living alone. Mainly because of a behavior issue, such as they don't "play well with others". They do fine. But they need lots of interaction and toys.
But I think in the end. If you just want one mouse. I would go with a male.
They are fun. And easy to train.
The only downside to petstore male mice. Is that they are all kept in a tank full of other males where they are bullied and beat up. Some can come home and be sweet as can be. Just thrilled to have their own space. But some come home with aggression issues. It doesent happen that often but it can happen.
If you decide you want a male mouse. I would look into breeders to be honest. That way you know that they are already hand tame and socialized with people.
If you can't find a breeder. I would atleast get one from a Petco or Petsmart where they keep males and females seperated. I then would ask to handle the male your interested in. To see how hand tame he is or not.
Gotta mention! My females are love bugs. They all three beg to be picked up when I walk in my room. Its pretty cute to see three little mice with their paws up on the side of the tank hopping up and down with excitement. Tiva (my brindle) especially is bonded to me. She is also the biggest.
Tiva about two weeks ago was in her runaround ball. The lid popped off (my fault, I didn't tape it) and I saw her little butt scurry out. I got off my couch and knelt down with my hand out and called her. (All three of my mice recognize their names. I have been working with them on that from day one). She came running right back to me and right onto my hand! Very smart girl
Indie my mismarked girl is my "lap sitter". She loves to run around. But she also loves to sit on my stomach or shoulder and brux and clean herself (a sign of trust).
I haven't read the whole thread, so if I'm repeating information, I'm sorry.
That said, I have owned rats, mice, and cornsnakes all as pets. I don't know much about milk snakes/king snakes.
RATS
These are probably my favorite of the three species, which the exception of their short lifespan. They are better off in pairs, but you can keep a single rat as long as they get TONS OF ATTENTION from you daily. They are very smart, and if kept alone/isolated they can get easily bored/depressed. Their intelligence also makes them incredibly easy to litter train (mine would have signals for when the needed to back into the cage) and learn basic commands. Most rats will learn their own names VERY easily. Many others can solve simple puzzles, such as how to stack things in order to reach a high object.
As long as the cage is cleaned regularly, and the rats are on a decent diet, you should not notice much by way of stink. Yes, they might "smell", but they should never "stink". Oh, and be sure you get a large enough cage. Most pet stores will suggest habitats that are WAY too small for rats.
It's easy to feed them, you can get lab block diets just about anywhere, and it's very cheap/easy to make your own grain mix, such as Suebee's.
I have owned more than a dozen rats over the years and have been bit exactly twice, both times because I was doing something stupid and scared the poor thing out of their heads.
Honestly, what I usually tell people that are thinking about rats, is that you can basically think of them as tiny dogs. They need about the same amount of attention, interaction, and care... and in return, you have a loving, devoted companion.
MICE
Very similar to rats in terms of temperament/intelligence, though I find them to be a little more skittish at the get-go (probably because they are much smaller and more vulnerable). That said, as long as they are handled regularly they do warm up pretty quickly.
I never noticed mine to stink, either... but then again, I personally think that has more to do with cage hygiene.
To be honest, I prefer the rats over mice... but that is mostly due to their size rather than their care. I was able to let my rats "free range" in my bedroom and trust they would come back to me when I called... I could never see myself being that comfortable with a mouse. They are just so tiny and delicate.
CORN SNAKES
Like with any animal, there are exceptions to the rule, but these are generally a very docile, personable, and hardy animal to deal with. They don't require as much care as a mammal... You can certainly offer them plenty of attention, but they don't NEED it quite so much. I like cornsnakes because they tend to be more "curious" than some other snake species. While I still wouldn't necessarily call them "social", many truly do not mind being handled, and seem to like riding around with you to "see where the action is." LOL! Reggie will almost always come out of hiding if I walk into the room.
I think it was Criosphynx who described to me once that most cornsnakes will "eat a mouse-scented rock". :rofl1: I have four right now... a yearling and three babies, and not a one of mine as EVER refused a feeding. I do suggest feeding frozen/thawed if you choose a snake. It's honestly safer for the snake. (If you think about it, a live mouse isn't going to want to be eaten, and when it's contained inside a tank and can't run, it's next instinct is likely going to be to attack the snake... and it is NOT fun to deal with a snake covered in bite wounds.)
Common corn snake morphs are pretty inexpensive and easy to find, though there is a lot of initial cost in getting a proper habitat put together. A 20-gallon long aquariam/vivarium should be plenty big for an average sized adult, but be sure you get one with a lid that attaches securely! You will also need an undertank heater and a thermostat (or rheostat) to regulate it, as most reptile heating systems can get hot enough to burn a cornsnake if they aren't controlled. Aspen chips are the best substrate to use, but you can also simply use paper towel or newspaper. I use aspen because a lot of corns do like to burrow.
Okay, that was a lot. :lol-sign: I can tell you more if you want, but hopefully I covered enough of the basics to be a help.
Good luck!
That said, I have owned rats, mice, and cornsnakes all as pets. I don't know much about milk snakes/king snakes.
RATS
These are probably my favorite of the three species, which the exception of their short lifespan. They are better off in pairs, but you can keep a single rat as long as they get TONS OF ATTENTION from you daily. They are very smart, and if kept alone/isolated they can get easily bored/depressed. Their intelligence also makes them incredibly easy to litter train (mine would have signals for when the needed to back into the cage) and learn basic commands. Most rats will learn their own names VERY easily. Many others can solve simple puzzles, such as how to stack things in order to reach a high object.
As long as the cage is cleaned regularly, and the rats are on a decent diet, you should not notice much by way of stink. Yes, they might "smell", but they should never "stink". Oh, and be sure you get a large enough cage. Most pet stores will suggest habitats that are WAY too small for rats.
It's easy to feed them, you can get lab block diets just about anywhere, and it's very cheap/easy to make your own grain mix, such as Suebee's.
I have owned more than a dozen rats over the years and have been bit exactly twice, both times because I was doing something stupid and scared the poor thing out of their heads.
Honestly, what I usually tell people that are thinking about rats, is that you can basically think of them as tiny dogs. They need about the same amount of attention, interaction, and care... and in return, you have a loving, devoted companion.
MICE
Very similar to rats in terms of temperament/intelligence, though I find them to be a little more skittish at the get-go (probably because they are much smaller and more vulnerable). That said, as long as they are handled regularly they do warm up pretty quickly.
I never noticed mine to stink, either... but then again, I personally think that has more to do with cage hygiene.
To be honest, I prefer the rats over mice... but that is mostly due to their size rather than their care. I was able to let my rats "free range" in my bedroom and trust they would come back to me when I called... I could never see myself being that comfortable with a mouse. They are just so tiny and delicate.
CORN SNAKES
Like with any animal, there are exceptions to the rule, but these are generally a very docile, personable, and hardy animal to deal with. They don't require as much care as a mammal... You can certainly offer them plenty of attention, but they don't NEED it quite so much. I like cornsnakes because they tend to be more "curious" than some other snake species. While I still wouldn't necessarily call them "social", many truly do not mind being handled, and seem to like riding around with you to "see where the action is." LOL! Reggie will almost always come out of hiding if I walk into the room.
I think it was Criosphynx who described to me once that most cornsnakes will "eat a mouse-scented rock". :rofl1: I have four right now... a yearling and three babies, and not a one of mine as EVER refused a feeding. I do suggest feeding frozen/thawed if you choose a snake. It's honestly safer for the snake. (If you think about it, a live mouse isn't going to want to be eaten, and when it's contained inside a tank and can't run, it's next instinct is likely going to be to attack the snake... and it is NOT fun to deal with a snake covered in bite wounds.)
Common corn snake morphs are pretty inexpensive and easy to find, though there is a lot of initial cost in getting a proper habitat put together. A 20-gallon long aquariam/vivarium should be plenty big for an average sized adult, but be sure you get one with a lid that attaches securely! You will also need an undertank heater and a thermostat (or rheostat) to regulate it, as most reptile heating systems can get hot enough to burn a cornsnake if they aren't controlled. Aspen chips are the best substrate to use, but you can also simply use paper towel or newspaper. I use aspen because a lot of corns do like to burrow.
Okay, that was a lot. :lol-sign: I can tell you more if you want, but hopefully I covered enough of the basics to be a help.
Good luck!
For housing I wouldn't go bigger than 30 gallons for an adult corn. In the wild they are homebodies, each individual tends to have a small territory they cruise and giving them too much space tends to stress them out for some reason, and it can be harder to maintain the right temps. If you start with a baby, they do best in tiny containers, like, those little rubbermaid crayon/pencil cases.
You don't have to stay with glass aquariums either. When I had a lot of corns, they lived in rubbermaid containers with holes drilled for air, set up on racks with heat tape and a thermostat.
After I picked my favorites to keep, Robert built them a display case using plexiglass and an old dresser. Please excuse the lack of substrate. I had just moved them in and was having trouble finding a place that carried coconut hulls (coir)
As far as lifespan, you can get a retired adult breeder from someone. Good corn breeders try and improve their stock with each generation, so many of them end up with retired breeders 5-10 years old.
Females will lay eggs regardless of whether they have been bred or not, so they'll need a nesting box if they get gravid. The males are fine and as long as there are no lady snakes in the house their behavior won't change.
You don't have to stay with glass aquariums either. When I had a lot of corns, they lived in rubbermaid containers with holes drilled for air, set up on racks with heat tape and a thermostat.
After I picked my favorites to keep, Robert built them a display case using plexiglass and an old dresser. Please excuse the lack of substrate. I had just moved them in and was having trouble finding a place that carried coconut hulls (coir)
As far as lifespan, you can get a retired adult breeder from someone. Good corn breeders try and improve their stock with each generation, so many of them end up with retired breeders 5-10 years old.
Females will lay eggs regardless of whether they have been bred or not, so they'll need a nesting box if they get gravid. The males are fine and as long as there are no lady snakes in the house their behavior won't change.
OMG I had no idea they got that big. Guess I'm just used to seeing the little babies in the pet stores.
Guess I'm just used to seeing the little babies in the pet stores.
Though, I suspect he probably had some yellow rat snake in his background. Not because of his color, but the bulk/size. Yellow rat X Corn is a popular hybrid, the albinos are called "creamsicle corns" and the normals "rootbeers". They get very big and are very fertile, I'm sure there are tons of captive bred amel corns out there with yellow rat ancestors.
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Not reading all the past advice but CORN SNAKE CORN SNAKE CORN SNAKE.
They are labrador snakes. The kings I've known have been pretty feisty, never known a milk snake, and ball pythons are nice but...just not so personable. Plus they get quite a bit bigger (much heavier) than a corn snake and need a more involved set up.
They are labrador snakes. The kings I've known have been pretty feisty, never known a milk snake, and ball pythons are nice but...just not so personable. Plus they get quite a bit bigger (much heavier) than a corn snake and need a more involved set up.
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Snakes don't smell (unless they throw up and you accidentally smell the decomposing, regurgiated mouse)
But you can't clicker train a snake.
You can leave a snake for a week (an adult, maybe even two) to go away.
You can probably leave a rat overnight, maybe even for a weekend, but not as long as a snake.
A rat needs toys, exercise, and attention.
Snakes need a warm spot (but they totally do play).
But you can't clicker train a snake.
You can leave a snake for a week (an adult, maybe even two) to go away.
You can probably leave a rat overnight, maybe even for a weekend, but not as long as a snake.
A rat needs toys, exercise, and attention.
Snakes need a warm spot (but they totally do play).
Snakes poop once a week.
I spot clean, add more substrate, and then do a full substrate change once a month. Once every three months I break it all down and wash their stuff in hot soapy water.
I spot clean, add more substrate, and then do a full substrate change once a month. Once every three months I break it all down and wash their stuff in hot soapy water.
I don't think anyone's mentioned this, but I did let my ratties out to run free every day. Of course I had to make sure the cat was out of the room.
But they loved it and rarely made any kind of mess.
For the corn snakes, I check daily to spot-clean, though generally there is only poop to clean up a few days after they eat and thats all. If they make a mess in the water dish/on a hide, I will take it out and clean it. I change all the substrate once every 3-4 weeks (or sooner, if necessary), and take everything apart for a thorough scrub-down roughly every three months.
Rats are somewhat more labor intensive in terms of cleaning. I would spot-clean daily as best possible, clean toys as needed, change litter/clean the pan every week or two, and do a full take-apart cage/toy cleaning every 4-6 weeks. However, if you litterbox train your rats, this could change things. (I never litterbox trained... only "cage trained", meaning they would go to the bathroom in their cage and not while out being handled. It IS possible to litterbox train them, though.)
Rats are somewhat more labor intensive in terms of cleaning. I would spot-clean daily as best possible, clean toys as needed, change litter/clean the pan every week or two, and do a full take-apart cage/toy cleaning every 4-6 weeks. However, if you litterbox train your rats, this could change things. (I never litterbox trained... only "cage trained", meaning they would go to the bathroom in their cage and not while out being handled. It IS possible to litterbox train them, though.)
I'd go for the snake, myself. I've wanted one for a while now. You feed them like every week or two, they crap every week, etc. Rats and mice are little excretion machines.
These all stay around 5 feet I believe, and are more or less natural color mutations.
Isla de Maize
Hog Island boa
Crawl Cay
Caulker Cay
This guy has beautiful snakes, he's in Texas:
Welcome Rio Bravo Reptiles
Amarali (around 6 ft)
http://www.millerreptiles.com/
Just as a disclaimer, I'm not an expert on snakes by any stretch of imagination but just thought I'd throw some options out there.
OH and as for forums:
sSNAKESs : Reptile Forum
(but I dunno about its reputation)
These all stay around 5 feet I believe, and are more or less natural color mutations.
Isla de Maize
Hog Island boa
Crawl Cay
Caulker Cay
This guy has beautiful snakes, he's in Texas:
Welcome Rio Bravo Reptiles
Amarali (around 6 ft)
http://www.millerreptiles.com/
Just as a disclaimer, I'm not an expert on snakes by any stretch of imagination but just thought I'd throw some options out there.
OH and as for forums:
sSNAKESs : Reptile Forum
(but I dunno about its reputation)
Regarding the adoption of rats..
If someone hasn't stated it before(I skim), rats and mice, in my opinion, are incredibly different in behavior as well as varying a bit in maintenance. Rats being more conducive to human attachment as well as more interactive in their behavior.
I have four males in a Feisty Ferret cage, and I clean the cage once a week. I use fleece as bedding, and Yesterday's News in the litterboxes(two, one on each level). I spot clean daily, sometimes every other day depending. One of my males is neutered, I highly recommend this for most males. It's not too expensive, possibly increases life expectancy, definitely decreases scent and marking, and nearly all of the time improves any negative dispositions.
Rats can and will come to you when you call, or run to the door of their cage when they hear you come home. If they happen to be calmer in temperament(say, a saint bernard tempered rat in comparison to a terrier tempered ratty- or really, many boy rats) they'll snuggle with you when you watch a movie and happily ride around in your pockets or on your shoulder. Some will be happy to kiss your fingers and roll on their side in content with you. You can easily clicker train rats to learn a variety of tricks, they're incredibly intelligent, charming little animals(check Youtube for rats that sit up, spin, come over, and play fetch, and try googling "the agile rat" for "rat agility"). They definitely require daily enrichment and socialization, and can seem very dog/puppy-like in their qualities.
If you are a first time rat owner, I strongly suggest you start with a pair of babies(with good temperament), or rats with known solid temperaments from a reputable rescue or breeder. Often being regarded as "disposable", rats are transferred from place to place and so frequently neglected, it is not necessarily uncommon to come up with a rat with nippy tendencies or fear-based issues(often the two go hand in hand) - especially if you acquire rats from a byb(yep! The rat world has'em too) or a feeder tank.
Ratster.com is a decent website to find rescues and breeders on - but beware, they do host BYBs on occasion. The rat world, strangely(or not so much) is seemingly very comparable to the dog world in it's upcoming politics.
As stated previously - rats always, always, always need to come in at least pairs. Unless you find that rare lone rat who just can't be with others of it's kind, the overall well-being of a rat with a companion is increased dramatically than one without. Any reputable breeder will tell you this, and oftentimes breeders will not sell single babies. Male or female, they are meant to live in colonies, and are happier in numbers, though you don't need more than a pair - two ratties will be perfectly happy with each other, throughout their lives. Trios are good in that in case one of the rats should pass early, the other will still have a long-bonded companion. Rats who have lived in long-instilled pairs who witness a loss often show PTSD afterward, including depressive behaviors(loss of appetite, loss of energy/interest), so this is where having a trio could come in particularly handy.
Many of the food products available for rats in pet stores are incredibly poorly composed and probably shouldn't be fed to any animal. Oxbow Regal rat is pretty well done, but most folks agree that a vegetarian or high quality low-protein-content(18% or less) dog food is best, with fresh fruits and veggies, and a grain mix. I feed my guys Wellness Healthy Weight with daily or salads every other day. Definitely avoid any Kaytee products(forti-diet, yada yada) or seed-mixes(Reggie Rat? also Kaytee).
The life expectancy of rats is around two to three years, four perhaps at the most, more likely to be around two and a half, three if you're lucky. Remember, these are animals who were bred to be test subjects or (in)bred to be food, and they can have some serious health problems. Spaying and neutering can help quite a bit, but often times rats are still subject most commonly to respiratory problems and tumors, among other things. We have so severely convoluted the domestic rat, that I thoroughly support adopting from a reputable breeder, if you can find one in your area, and save for a vet fund!
Some really wonderful links for food for thought/research:
Bao Varakhii Rattery Frequently Asked Questions
(A generally very succinct and thorough overall guide to rats, containing a majority of basic questions - also written by one of the best ratty breeders in the states, in my opinion)
Breeder Red Flags
(Breeder Red Flags - You would be amazed between the difference in a rat who was bred by a sincere breeder and one you might find in a feeder bin - be sure to check out some of BVRs rats, as well!)
Goosemoose Pet Portal - Home
(A forum full of people who are nuts about rats. But, if you're ever in a pinch, or curious about owning rats, this has been one of the best sources of information for me throughout my ratties lives.)
Anyway, I hope this helps!
If someone hasn't stated it before(I skim
), rats and mice, in my opinion, are incredibly different in behavior as well as varying a bit in maintenance. Rats being more conducive to human attachment as well as more interactive in their behavior.I have four males in a Feisty Ferret cage, and I clean the cage once a week. I use fleece as bedding, and Yesterday's News in the litterboxes(two, one on each level). I spot clean daily, sometimes every other day depending. One of my males is neutered, I highly recommend this for most males. It's not too expensive, possibly increases life expectancy, definitely decreases scent and marking, and nearly all of the time improves any negative dispositions.
Rats can and will come to you when you call, or run to the door of their cage when they hear you come home. If they happen to be calmer in temperament(say, a saint bernard tempered rat in comparison to a terrier tempered ratty- or really, many boy rats) they'll snuggle with you when you watch a movie and happily ride around in your pockets or on your shoulder. Some will be happy to kiss your fingers and roll on their side in content with you. You can easily clicker train rats to learn a variety of tricks, they're incredibly intelligent, charming little animals(check Youtube for rats that sit up, spin, come over, and play fetch, and try googling "the agile rat" for "rat agility"). They definitely require daily enrichment and socialization, and can seem very dog/puppy-like in their qualities.
If you are a first time rat owner, I strongly suggest you start with a pair of babies(with good temperament), or rats with known solid temperaments from a reputable rescue or breeder. Often being regarded as "disposable", rats are transferred from place to place and so frequently neglected, it is not necessarily uncommon to come up with a rat with nippy tendencies or fear-based issues(often the two go hand in hand) - especially if you acquire rats from a byb(yep! The rat world has'em too) or a feeder tank.
Ratster.com is a decent website to find rescues and breeders on - but beware, they do host BYBs on occasion. The rat world, strangely(or not so much) is seemingly very comparable to the dog world in it's upcoming politics.
As stated previously - rats always, always, always need to come in at least pairs. Unless you find that rare lone rat who just can't be with others of it's kind, the overall well-being of a rat with a companion is increased dramatically than one without. Any reputable breeder will tell you this, and oftentimes breeders will not sell single babies. Male or female, they are meant to live in colonies, and are happier in numbers, though you don't need more than a pair - two ratties will be perfectly happy with each other, throughout their lives. Trios are good in that in case one of the rats should pass early, the other will still have a long-bonded companion. Rats who have lived in long-instilled pairs who witness a loss often show PTSD afterward, including depressive behaviors(loss of appetite, loss of energy/interest), so this is where having a trio could come in particularly handy.
Many of the food products available for rats in pet stores are incredibly poorly composed and probably shouldn't be fed to any animal. Oxbow Regal rat is pretty well done, but most folks agree that a vegetarian or high quality low-protein-content(18% or less) dog food is best, with fresh fruits and veggies, and a grain mix. I feed my guys Wellness Healthy Weight with daily or salads every other day. Definitely avoid any Kaytee products(forti-diet, yada yada) or seed-mixes(Reggie Rat? also Kaytee).
The life expectancy of rats is around two to three years, four perhaps at the most, more likely to be around two and a half, three if you're lucky. Remember, these are animals who were bred to be test subjects or (in)bred to be food, and they can have some serious health problems. Spaying and neutering can help quite a bit, but often times rats are still subject most commonly to respiratory problems and tumors, among other things. We have so severely convoluted the domestic rat, that I thoroughly support adopting from a reputable breeder, if you can find one in your area, and save for a vet fund!
Some really wonderful links for food for thought/research:
Bao Varakhii Rattery Frequently Asked Questions
(A generally very succinct and thorough overall guide to rats, containing a majority of basic questions - also written by one of the best ratty breeders in the states, in my opinion)
Breeder Red Flags
(Breeder Red Flags - You would be amazed between the difference in a rat who was bred by a sincere breeder and one you might find in a feeder bin - be sure to check out some of BVRs rats, as well!)
Goosemoose Pet Portal - Home
(A forum full of people who are nuts about rats. But, if you're ever in a pinch, or curious about owning rats, this has been one of the best sources of information for me throughout my ratties lives.)
Anyway, I hope this helps!
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