I Do Not..

Well I was all agreeing with your post... until I got to this part. I can understand you wanting to use a clicker for training YOUR dog, yes, but dogs CAN be trained without one. My dog is perfectly trained, and we did not use the clicker. So to say that if you do not plan on training your dog, a clicker is not going to help you... seems like you are saying that you can ONLY train a dog with a clicker. Which is just silly, and rather offensive actually, if I am reading this right. If I am not please forgive me, I would not be surprised actually.

And my dog is perfectly fine at the vet... and at the groomers, and being boarded, and was never crate trained.

I honestly do not think that crates and clickers are for everybody. I would never look down on somebody who USES those things, and would expect the same. I could see if my dog was horribly mannered and not trained, but she is not.

Actually, in some cases, I think some people really should not use crates. Some people use crate training in place of the dogs having house manners, because the dog is in the crate so often. So when the dog IS out, it is horribly mannered, because it was never trained house manners since it had the crate.

Ok I have no clue if that made any sense. If not, I apologize, I have gone off my meds for the last 2 days, since I forgot them at home.. and am feeling the effects now

I only crated Jackson for about, oh, maybe around 5-6 weeks when I first brought him home. I worked really hard... he never took to it, nor ever needed it around the house. I would put the crate on my bed at nighttime with him because I knew I wanted him sleeping in the bed with me at some point. However, he goes to professional groomers and was always fine with it and never put up a fuss. I think each dog is different. Some dogs I would never leave alone in the house, LOL, but Jackson has proved himself to always be trustworthy.

Clicker training. I didn't see the big deal about it when first learning. I taught Jackson sit, down, stay, roll over, 'bang bang', shake, and maybe 5 other tricks without it. I decided I'd give it a whirl. I was totally amazed. Jackson learned everything sooo much faster. Rather than having to have the new trick repeated 15-20 times, with the clicker he understood incredibly faster what I wanted him to do, and now usually learns a new trick within 5-10 repetitions. He looks SO forward now to learning new tricks and offers me behaviors on his own. I love the clicker. He probably doubled his trick repertoire in a months time after the clicker.

However, I don't judge anybody for not using these tools, or using them. To be perfectly honest, when I first saw a video on YouTube of the clicker, I thought it was sooo silly. I was like wth. Is that stupid thing really necessary? ha... boy, I proved myself wrong.

Also, I don't, like, carry the clicker on me all the time. Once Jackson learns a new command or trick and understands/knows it... the clicker is no longer necessary.

I agree with a lot of this. We didn't use crates in the "olden" days and our dogs were okay at the vets...maybe a little stressed, but not bonkers. They seemed to take things pretty much in stride. But of course, not all dogs are like that. So, it's not a bad idea to at least get a pup use to one. I also don't agree with leaving a dog in a "box" for long stretches of time. I see it as a tool and a safety thing when safety is needed. Some dogs are fine in a puppy proofed room, some will eat the walls. It just depends. Dogs that previously had some kind of frightening experience with crates would probably be better off without one, unless they can have their minds changed. Yeah, of course there are variables to everything.

We also never used clickers back when I was young and my dogs were still trained, well mannered and learned a lot of things. It's just another way to train and very effective and quick in a lot of instances. Some people really enjoy using them, they're fun for many... but no, they're not necessary to train a dog.

To each his own...

I think the op might have a misconception, which prompted this thread. Correct me if I'm wrong. When people post things, praising people like Koehler and Milan or extolling the virtues of coercive training, lots of us come out of the woodwork and suggest clicker training as an alternative. It's not the only alternative, but it's getting very popular and is based on some viable learning science. Just a thought...

That's not what I was saying at all. :/

I'm saying that clickers AREN'T helpful if you don't plan to do training. As in, they're very helpful in force-free training... helpful, not essential. Particularly beyond the basic stuff. I did not say "if you don't use a clicker you can't train your dog!" Obviously.

Different methods work for different dogs (and people!).

I believe that if you're not comfortable using a specific training tool or method, it's going to affect how well it works on your dogs.

Strider wasn't clicker trained or crated. He never needed it. Yet, he's a highly trained service animal.

Charlie is clicker trained and crated. Without a crate our home would be destroyed. lol. The clicker was the absolute best tool for communicating with him. I wish we had realized it when he was younger.

Okay, thanks for explaining that more. Like Jess, I wasn't fully understanding what you said either. lol

I haven't used a clicker that much. I don't think it's necessary, it's just another way to train. There are lots of ways to train. It's just about what works for you and your dog that allows you to make progress.

Crates...I couldn't see being without one. I guess if you can raise a puppy without one without the puppy tearing things up, more power to you. I'd like to hear how you do it without a crate, though. Where does the puppy go when you leave the house? During the night?

I don't use clickers at all. To me, they're more work than they're worth. I'm not going to talk about my training methods because it will open a can of worms, but it is highly effective.

Crates...I wish my dogs had been crate trained from puppies, but they weren't. I got them as older puppies (8 months and 1 year) and neither have been crated.
Normally that's not an issue for me, except, we're moving overseas and they will have to be crated for at least 12 hours, if not more. So this should be interesting.

Clickers are very very useful for shaping behaviors. I don't know how I'd do shaping exercises without them to be honest. I just looked at Summer and had her give me an enthusiastic high five. This is a simple behavior yes, but from a dog that doesn't ever paw at anything and initially would freak out if you tried to get her to touch your hand. So I built up the behavior with clicking step by step. This is an overly simplistic example but shaping to me is made much easier by a clicker. You could mark it with a 'yes' but clickers make everything so concisely and simply, which helps you be more clear to the dog.

As long as people are open to the fact that your next dog may need another method than your current ones, I think it's fine. Some dogs, like Mia for example, need confinement to be safe. I cannot imagine having a Mia without using a crate. You'd either come home to a demolished house or a dead dog....

We crated Leo and we crate Nikki, but clicker trained neither. Tried to get Nikki on board but she doesn't respond to the clicker and try as I might, she never made the connection, so I abandoned it and went back to more traditional training methods.

I may never be able to treat long distance, but at least she'll learn. She wasn't getting anything from the clicker.

Clicker training is just one of a slew of different ways to train dogs. Not all dogs are receptive to all training styles. Just like humans, they have different ways of learning and different things that motivate them.

I don't clicker train. I don't see the use in it. However, I do crate train puppies for house training, and to keep all my furniture in tack at night and when I'm not home. Once house trained and out of the "puppy stage" the crate is no more.

My friend uses the clicker and it works wonders. I know it can be a great tool, it just wasn't for Sam. Besides that Sam learned extremely fast without the clicker, by 12-13 weeks old he had all of his basic commands down and a couple of extra tricks too.

Yes! Over and over and over and over! He just didn't get it. I tried for a couple of weeks and it just wasn't for him.

As for 'how can you have a puppy and not crate it!' I have no idea! It's just ridiculous to expect a puppy to know their manners and to be able to hold it in at night. However Sam was a miracle puppy and besides a couple of accidents and a few shoes he didn't need it. My Mom was home all day pretty much to be able to let him out frequently while I was at school and as for night time, he learned quickly to come and ask someone to let him out. And before he learned how to ask, all of his accidents were by the back door (where he is let out to the backyard).

Have never used either. Have no problem with people that do. Only people that abuse crates by keeping their dog in them far too long.

I don't clicker train, never have probably never will. We have had dogs growing up and although I trained them I don't think clickers were available then. If someone uses one that's fine.

As for crate training Lola was the first dog I crate trained. Back in the day I don't think that their was such a thing as a crate for a dog. Lola was not crate trained before I had her and she did not like the crate for the first few weeks but after that she was fine and she goes in her crate on her own when it's time for bed. That is the only time she is crated now but when she had SA she was crated when I had to go out including when I was at work she would be crated for a few hours before someone came over to take her out for a walk. After they walked her they would leave her out of the crate.

Now when I go to work she is out of the crate when I leave so the only time she is in the crate is at night.

I don't use either. T-Bone is crate-trained, however and doesn't put up a fuss when she needs to be crated. She is afraid of the clicker. I tried to get her used to it, but the sound makes her uneasy, so I just don't use it.

Well, they've been around since at least the early 60's. (maybe you're really old. LOL) BF Skinner first suggested them for training dogs around that time. When I was a kid, we had those things. They were called crickets and they were sold as a little toy for kids to go around annoying their parents.

I don't believe clickers won't work on some dogs. Clickers are nothing but classical conditioning and operant/classical conditioning is how every organism with a brain learns, whether they like it or not. LOL. You don't really have to prime it per say, but if a click is followed by something really good, consistently, regularly, frequently....that click becomes a secondary reinforcer. (or punisher) It can't NOT become a secondary reinforcer. It's how the brain works in every mammal. Something else was missing in the mix. I don't know what, but something.

But, that is not to say that a dog can't be trained without one. It just speeds things up and makes communication clearer. And if they're not for everybody, it isn't a big deal at all. I only started playing around with them with my more recent dogs, over the past years. It's just fun. But I certainly don't use a clicker for everything. Half the time, I'm just not in a convenient situation. It's only when I'm making a point of teaching my dogs something new....which, I don't do that much with my dogs now. They're old hands at most things I need from them, being seniors.

I did, she then proceeded to look at us like we were crazy.

Again, I do apologize. I misunderstood your post

Rosey stayed wherever she wanted to be when we left. Usually she would start out in the living room, then end up sleeping on somebody's bed. At night, she would (and still does) wander from room to room (she can open doors) making sure "her kids" were safe.

You know, something to keep in mind I think, is that for the people saying they don't use a clicker for training, you more than likely use a voice marker instead. And that's all a clicker is, a marker. I know that after I learned how to use a clicker I really became wise to the fact that I used "YES!" very consistently whenever they did what I wanted and then rewarded.

So while some of you who say you don't "clicker train" probably do "marker train"

I don't use a clicker and don't use crates anymore.

When we had Teddy a crate was nessecary because if he got bored while you were away... you'd come home to one less cushion on the couch lol. so he had to be crated.

Beezer and Belle I started them off in crates and they did fine. so they understand crates and aren't afraid of them (although if Beezer had to stay away at the vets the crate would be the least of my worries. He would be a wreck because he had to be away from us for more than a few hours and feel like we werent coming back to get him. he's very sensitive that way) but at this point we don't have any need to crate them when we leave. they usually end up on our bed and sleep the whole time as far as I can tell. sometimes when we get home they don't even get up to greet us and are STILL asleep in our bed lol.

I tried clicker training with Teddy... it just seemed like one more thing I had to carry everywhere I went and I was often forgetting it so it was pretty useless for me because I'm forgetful lol. I don't use it with Beezer and Belle either... but I also don't do a whole lot of training besides the basic be polite type things

Wow kinda rude first replies. Its a typical thread I see on other dog forums all the time.

I HATE clickers. Absolutely hate them. And I it annoys me when people act like clicker training is the end all be all (im not pointing out or refering to anyone one this site or thread). I have never ever used a clicker and never ever will. I too found it got in the way and was just some pointless thing that got lost in my purse because of lack of use. My dogs are very well trained and didn't need a clicker to be that way.

I have used crates to help house train puppies. Sawyer was the first puppy to ever actually stay in bed with me through the night. Puppies before I felt I couldn't trust not to roam my room and have accidents so they were crated at night or when I wasent home.

This was for their own safety more so than me not wanting my stuff chewed or pee'd on. And honestly and I don't care if it offends anyone. I find it really really stupid to allow a puppy loose in any room when no one is home. So many things could go wrong. And im not going to list them all. Its common sense.

Maggie May came from a puppy mill rescue. She lived her first year and a half of her life outdoors only (including the rescue). She prefers her crate (with the door open) to any peice of furniture. Its also too small for the boys too squeeze in and pester her.

Not quite sure the point of the post, because it's a common knowledge that Chazzers are mostly of the opinions that crates and clickers are both valuable tools, but neither are required to be a good dog owner. Some dogs don't need crates, some dogs don't need or benefit from clickers. Some thrive using both, some need one or the other. *shrug*

People have opinions. Take them with a grain of salt.