Canada Pension raises retirement age for those under 54!

Doberluv

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#41
It doesn't matter whether some people reeeeeeelly need help or this program should not be cut or this other thing should be paid for. You can go on and on till the cows come home about who deserves what. The fact of the matter is, that our countries have run out of money. If you used your credit card and kept buying things that you can't pay for and you owed hundreds of thousands of dollars and then you kept on using your credit card and you asked your parents to help you out and they spent every last dime they had helping you out but you kept on buying things on credit. What would happen? Where would you get the money to pay the credit card with? Do you think the credit card company would just let it go and let you keep on spending money? Well, apparently the people in this kind of system, those who vote for politicians who are all about social help think it will all work out fine. The parents will keep paying for them. Who are the "parents?" The rich. Oh yes, let's just make the rich pay. But guess what? Rich people run out of money too, just like the parents in this little story. And just like the government. If you keep taking from some source....any source, it runs dry eventually. Then what do you think will happen? A complete and colassal collapse. And that's what we're doing right now. Imploding, you might call it. People need to stop whining about not having their health care paid for by someone else or anything else from the government. Whether it's right or wrong, whether you believe in government doing a lot of stuff for people, whether it's done "correctly" or not, it doesn't matter. We're out of money. There isn't anymore. We're in debt up to our eyeballs. There's no one left to pay for it.
 

misfitz

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#42
So what's the solution then? I don't disagree about the imminent collapse...just that someone offering solutions is being seen as 'whining'. All we can really do is propose options, no?
 

NicoleLJ

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#43
You're assuming that these people want "luxuries" and already live in a large house. If they started out with nothing, and are barely scraping by in the first place, the choice between taking a part-time, minimum wage job that doesn't pay the rent on your tiny apartment, or staying on the system and being able to buy food...?

I think NicoleJ has a valid point. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think she's saying that helping people off of the system is the ONLY solution. Only that it's a part of the solution. It's like the animal shelter crowding problem - we can't solve it ONLY by spay/neuter, or ONLY by adopting. But many solutions working together to solve a complex problem with many facets and many causes.

And you can't realistically compare your experience in your town with someone else's experience in a different town/state/country in a different time period. Any more than I, in Los Angeles, can complain that people in Detroit just aren't looking hard enough for jobs. Sometimes jobs just DON'T exist - or not enough of them.

My family lived in the Silicon Valley during the dot-com crash. My brother, who was in high school, and his friends couldn't find any part-time jobs. Not even at McDonalds - all of those jobs were filled by out of work software engineers. Believe me, they looked, but the unemployment rate at that time was astronomical. And there were far more out of work engineers than there were cashier jobs at McDonalds. The highways at rush hour looked like post-apocalyptic - no cars at all.

My dad was lucky enough to have a network of friends who helped him get another job - at a 50% pay cut. Fine, you do what you have to. They ended up having to leave the Bay Area. Again, you do what you have to. But they were LUCKY. They had a house they could sell (albeit at a loss.) They had enough savings to enable them to live in the red for years, they had supportive friends and family, and they didn't have any medical or other emergencies.

Had they not had these things, who knows what would have happened. Someone living paycheck to paycheck at that time would have been devastated. If you're already near the bottom and something like that happens, it's not so easy to recover.

Ok, I'm done ranting. :) Anyone read Nickel & Dimed by Barbara Ehrenreich? A journalist tried an experiment, starting with nothing to see where she could get with the proverbial hard work in several US cities. It's a pretty eye-opening book.
You got exactly what I am saying. Thanks. THat does sound like and interesting read/
 

misfitz

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#44
And DoberLuv, I'm not saying there's not a problem...I just get irritated when people that are struggling are painted with the brush of "wanting luxuries" or "living above their means" and that's what got them into trouble. And you didn't do that, but some of what LauraLeigh said rubbed me the wrong way. (No offense, LauraLeigh.)

I also get mad at magazine "save hundreds of dollars this year!" articles that tell me I should stop buying my daily latte at Starbucks and I'll save $xx.xx. Ohhh, so that's why I'm so broke. :rolleyes: Well, I'll just stop buying those lattes and new cars and steak dinners and I'll be fine. <facepalm> Sometimes it's not that simple.
 

Doberluv

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#45
First, I'm not saying that offering solutions is whining. And it's neither here nor there whether people are struggling or others are wanting luxuries. It has no bearing on our state of economic collapse. It's really very simple. We don't have money to pay for these things whether they're deserved or not. It's all gone. There is no solution at this late stage of the game. We're way too far into debt and there isn't anyone to pay for it. It's going to go down like the Roman empire did. It's only a matter of a little time.
 

LauraLeigh

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#46
You're assuming that these people want "luxuries" and already live in a large house. If they started out with nothing, and are barely scraping by in the first place, the choice between taking a part-time, minimum wage job that doesn't pay the rent on your tiny apartment, or staying on the system and being able to buy food...?

I think NicoleJ has a valid point. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think she's saying that helping people off of the system is the ONLY solution. Only that it's a part of the solution. It's like the animal shelter crowding problem - we can't solve it ONLY by spay/neuter, or ONLY by adopting. But many solutions working together to solve a complex problem with many facets and many causes.

And you can't realistically compare your experience in your town with someone else's experience in a different town/state/country in a different time period. Any more than I, in Los Angeles, can complain that people in Detroit just aren't looking hard enough for jobs. Sometimes jobs just DON'T exist - or not enough of them.

My family lived in the Silicon Valley during the dot-com crash. My brother, who was in high school, and his friends couldn't find any part-time jobs. Not even at McDonalds - all of those jobs were filled by out of work software engineers. Believe me, they looked, but the unemployment rate at that time was astronomical. And there were far more out of work engineers than there were cashier jobs at McDonalds. The highways at rush hour looked like post-apocalyptic - no cars at all.

My dad was lucky enough to have a network of friends who helped him get another job - at a 50% pay cut. Fine, you do what you have to. They ended up having to leave the Bay Area. Again, you do what you have to. But they were LUCKY. They had a house they could sell (albeit at a loss.) They had enough savings to enable them to live in the red for years, they had supportive friends and family, and they didn't have any medical or other emergencies.

Had they not had these things, who knows what would have happened. Someone living paycheck to paycheck at that time would have been devastated. If you're already near the bottom and something like that happens, it's not so easy to recover.

Ok, I'm done ranting. :) Anyone read Nickel & Dimed by Barbara Ehrenreich? A journalist tried an experiment, starting with nothing to see where she could get with the proverbial hard work in several US cities. It's a pretty eye-opening book.
I live in the same province as Nicole now, I see the housing provided in our county and know the amount that a very close friends sister gets monthly, it's much higher than my daughter's husbands monthly income as a tradesman with a good job...

I know many people making it on their own, struggling but on their own, both here in Ontario and back home in NS, right now... Not back when we were (which was not thaaat long ago)

I know VERY few on welfare around here who live in tiny houses, no food etc... Unless they misuse their funds...

I know MANY in nice supplemented apartments or duplexes, with Internet, satellite, and far more luxuries than many peers who work...

I find it frustrating and offensive, can't help it...

I feel terrible for those who need the system, but that does not negate that many are set up better here than those who work their asses off..

I cannot compare to the US system, or other provinces because I don't know about them, but I do know that Matt makes $20 an hour, and works 40 plus hours a week, and the sister I spoke of clears more per month than he does... And gets supplemented housing, dental and medical benefits and access to sport programs for their children for "free"

I remember at a time when a friend in NS few years back was struggling and they were behind on their power bill, they had a notice hung on their door saying they had 24 hours to pay, under that it said if you are on social assistance you can get a 7 day extension... So if you work cough it up, if you are on welfare just call and you can have 7 days!!?! See anything wrong with that?

VERY broken system with little "incentive" to get off maybe, except pride of doing it for yourself... And most CAN! For those who truly can't that's what the system IS for!

Sorry, as you can tell it is an issue for me... I don't want to seem mean, I am simply frustrated.... The fact some need it should not mean we ignore the millions that goes to those who truly don't

Oh and to address the bottom issue,

Our first home was a mobile home, when The kids were 1/2 it burned flat...

We were already poor, we could not afford insurance, we literally had the clothes on our backs and our old clunker car... We had some old furniture donated, found a cheap apartment, dug in and dug out....

I know you said not to use my experiences but it does not get much rougher than that and we managed..
 
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LauraLeigh

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#47
And DoberLuv, I'm not saying there's not a problem...I just get irritated when people that are struggling are painted with the brush of "wanting luxuries" or "living above their means" and that's what got them into trouble. And you didn't do that, but some of what LauraLeigh said rubbed me the wrong way. (No offense, LauraLeigh.)

I also get mad at magazine "save hundreds of dollars this year!" articles that tell me I should stop buying my daily latte at Starbucks and I'll save $xx.xx. Ohhh, so that's why I'm so broke. :rolleyes: Well, I'll just stop buying those lattes and new cars and steak dinners and I'll be fine. <facepalm> Sometimes it's not that simple.
Trust me I know struggle, more than 99% of the people here on welfare, sorry I rubbed you wrong but that's been my experience and I can't and won't ignore it...

Maybe in other places social programs pay less, here they "pay" quite well...

And I am not talking about disability, I am talking about able bodied people with a couple of kids making more per month when all their cheques come in than my daughters husband who makes a good wage!
 

NicoleLJ

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#48
I am not in Ontario. I am in Alberta. Or did you move here recently? Because your location says Ontario. It should anger people when someone is using the system in the wrong way. No one is saying it shouldn't. We are just saying that there is other aspects to look at as well other then just get the leeches off. I prefer to find ways to assist people to get off of it then to stay stuck on it. The sooner someone is off it the better for everyone.
 

misfitz

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#49
I see where you're coming from, and that would annoy me too! The system should reward people that are trying to pull themselves up, that are working and want to work. I think we all agree on that. :) I don't know anyone on welfare personally, but I am envious of the *very* nice low-income apartments we have around here, that are nicer than what I can afford on my salary.

I used to work for a Worker's Comp lawyer, and it was so sad, that the people who were scamming the system not only got away with it, but they made it that much harder for people with legitimate cases to get compensated. It is rather upside down.
 

LauraLeigh

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#50
I am not in Ontario. I am in Alberta. Or did you move here recently? Because your location says Ontario. It should anger people when someone is using the system in the wrong way. No one is saying it shouldn't. We are just saying that there is other aspects to look at as well other then just get the leeches off. I prefer to find ways to assist people to get off of it then to stay stuck on it. The sooner someone is off it the better for everyone.
My bad I though once you said Ontario... I'll give you that, but Alberta is in pretty good shape no? Is it that hard for able bodied people to get work there?
 

MandyPug

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#51
My bad I though once you said Ontario... I'll give you that, but Alberta is in pretty good shape no? Is it that hard for able bodied people to get work there?
It's not hard, and minimum wage is $9.40 now I believe. There's a lot of jobs here and heck mcdick's starts wages at $13!
 

NicoleLJ

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#52
My bad I though once you said Ontario... I'll give you that, but Alberta is in pretty good shape no? Is it that hard for able bodied people to get work there?
It depends on the person and the time. A few years ago there were no jobs, then a ton of jobs but no housing, then very few jobs, and now it is getting better.
 

Puckstop31

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#53
I am not in Ontario. I am in Alberta. Or did you move here recently? Because your location says Ontario. It should anger people when someone is using the system in the wrong way. No one is saying it shouldn't. We are just saying that there is other aspects to look at as well other then just get the leeches off. I prefer to find ways to assist people to get off of it then to stay stuck on it. The sooner someone is off it the better for everyone.
Tell us Nicole... What are YOU doing to get off of assistance?

My story? I am "recovered" from military related PTSD. I make ZERO excuse for that. It was my privilidge to serve my country. I wear those memories as a badge of honor. A month ago, I suffered a severe panic attack. I thought I was going to die. To this day, there are symptoms everyday. BUt I suck it up and drive on. Why? Because my family depends on me. My "medical team" TRIED to get me on meds and "assistance". Screw that, I have to look my self in the face in the morning. To this day, I work, a lot. The very fact that I beat all this crap was more healing than the "medical" morons or meds ever could be.

Perhaps you could give that a go? I know, you tried. Try again. We humans are stronger than we think. Especially if you trust your Creator.
 

JessLough

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#54
Tell us Nicole... What are YOU doing to get off of assistance?

My story? I am "recovered" from military related PTSD. I make ZERO excuse for that. It was my privilidge to serve my country. I wear those memories as a badge of honor. A month ago, I suffered a severe panic attack. I thought I was going to die. To this day, there are symptoms everyday. BUt I suck it up and drive on. Why? Because my family depends on me. My "medical team" TRIED to get me on meds and "assistance". Screw that, I have to look my self in the face in the morning. To this day, I work, a lot. The very fact that I beat all this crap was more healing than the "medical" morons or meds ever could be.

Perhaps you could give that a go? I know, you tried. Try again. We humans are stronger than we think. Especially if you trust your Creator.
:hail:
 

Puckstop31

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#55
EDIT: (after time limit)

I hear you are getting a "raise" from your fellow taxpayers soon. How does that feel? Did your rent go up that much? ($400) If not, gonna give it back?
 

NicoleLJ

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#56
EDIT: (after time limit)

I hear you are getting a "raise" from your fellow taxpayers soon. How does that feel? Did your rent go up that much? ($400) If not, gonna give it back?
Nope not going to give it back. Why? Because I am deamed unemployable and I do not feel ashamed by that in the least. It took quite a bit of therapy to take me from "I feel guilty for living because I am disabled and on Permant Disability" to "I am able to accept myself for my disabilities and my limitations and I trust my medical team". That does not make me a bad person in the least and if you have an issue with that then that is your issue not mine.

I have not once in over 2yrs gotten my full AISH benifits. Doug has worked two jobs to keep us both afloat. He lives with me and he KNOWS my disabilities and even his bosses have stated that I would not be hireable and that is Canadian Tire. Usually my Aish covers 2/3rds of the rent. Doug covers everything else. When he gets his Mechanics liscense so that he is making enough that we exampt out of AISH then we will be off it. Doug is on a waiting list to get his apprenticeship so how ever long it takes him to finish is when we will most likely be off. Not that it is any of your business and frankly I find it very rude and insulting that you would imply such things and think you know better then my medical doctors.

THis thread is obviously turning into a personal attack so I am bowing out because I have no interest in people telling me how to live my life when they know so little about me and do not have the knowledge my medical team has. Pick someone else to be your scape goat for your anger at the world because I am not volunterring.
 

JessLough

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#57
Nope not going to give it back. Why? Because I am deamed unemployable and I do not feel ashamed by that in the least. It took quite a bit of therapy to take me from "I feel guilty for living because I am disabled and on Permant Disability" to "I am able to accept myself for my disabilities and my limitations and I trust my medical team". That does not make me a bad person in the least and if you have an issue with that then that is your issue not mine.

I have not once in over 2yrs gotten my full AISH benifits. Doug has worked two jobs to keep us both afloat. He lives with me and he KNOWS my disabilities and even his bosses have stated that I would not be hireable and that is Canadian Tire. Usually my Aish covers 2/3rds of the rent. Doug covers everything else. When he gets his Mechanics liscense so that he is making enough that we exampt out of AISH then we will be off it. Doug is on a waiting list to get his apprenticeship so how ever long it takes him to finish is when we will most likely be off. Not that it is any of your business and frankly I find it very rude and insulting that you would imply such things and think you know better then my medical doctors.
nvm :)
 

NicoleLJ

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#58
I can walk into my doctors office, ask for disability papers, and he would gladly sign it.

Your doctors signing something doesn't mean it's true.
Your refusal to believe it because of being unhappy in your life does not make your opinion true. Just makes it an opinion. I would rather trust my doctors who know me much better and for much longer.
 

JessLough

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#59
Your refusal to believe it because of being unhappy in your life does not make your opinion true. Just makes it an opinion. I would rather trust my doctors who know me much better and for much longer.
LMAO I'm unhappy? Better yet, I said that I do not believe it? :rofl1::rofl1::rofl1::rofl1::rofl1::rofl1:

Please. Pretty, pretty please, show me where I ever doubted it? PRETTY ****ING PLEASE.

If you're gonna spew ****, you sure as hell better be ready to back it up.
 

NicoleLJ

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#60
LMAO I'm unhappy? Better yet, I said that I do not believe it? :rofl1::rofl1::rofl1::rofl1::rofl1::rofl1:

Please. Pretty, pretty please, show me where I ever doubted it? PRETTY ****ING PLEASE.

If you're gonna spew ****, you sure as hell better be ready to back it up.
What else was suppose to be assumed by your posts? For someone to have so much anger and resentment for someone they never met and to imply such nasty and false things they must be unhappy in some aspect of their life or jealous. So I will laugh right along with you since I see your replies in the same light. Night all.:rofl1::rofl1:
 

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