And now, the good news ...

Aside from our nasty experience at the park today (which I'll leave to a different thread), Manni was so good on our hike that I thought I'd brag a bit.

This dog is extremely loving and affectionate, but also incredibly independent and stubborn. Off-leash training with him has been anything but easy; he usually would much rather wander off chasing the scent of some distant animal than come back to us, even if we're packing his favorite treats.

Today was the third time I've tried letting him off leash on our hike. The first two times, he was good for a couple minutes, then bolted. Talk about tense minutes as we wait patiently for him to return.

I've been working with him in the house and also at the baseball park across the street, and he'd been doing better so I thought I'd give it another try.

I was absolutely *amazed* at my dog today. He stuck close to me and came charging every time I said his name or said 'Come here'. He spent about 30 minutes of our hike off leash, and never once wandered out of sight.

I'm so proud of him, and us too. It only took 10 months! Whoever said Labs are smart never met this dopey beast.

Hi Irotas... too funny! So your recalls have improved?! Could it be your new found sense of patience, calmer demeanor and confidence since starting training with the "troublemaker twins"? Lol. Glad to hear all is going better!

Sounds like he's getting more mature. And you're probably more relaxed. I do a lot of off leash hiking with my dogs....just about every day. And the main thing in my case, I think, which really got them to have a good recall was that I'd entice them to come, give them a fantastic treat, get a little playful with them and then tell them, "go run!" There was no pressure to stay right next to me. They do need to stay within sight. I'd do this frequently during the whole time out. They've learned now to come "check in" by default very frequently. There's no "skin of their back" to come because they get to go again. I don't have to have treats with me every time either. So, it sounds like you'll have that opportunity with your wilderness hikes.

They'll all come, even when they're interested in a squirrel, because I turn them loose again after they come so they can go watch it run up a tree. So, they come quite well even with those kinds of distractions. I had to laugh one time with Lyric. He was fascinated by a squirrel about 30 ft from the trail. He ran over there and I called him. (this was after his recall was good) He came but kept looking back over his shoulder. He sat next to me, but kept looking at the tree the squirrel ran up. Then I said, "OK...go see!" And he got to run right back over there and check out the squirrel. lol.

Of course, some dogs tend to take off worse than others. In that case, probably a long line for a while. But it sounds like your dog might just be catching onto this game. Way to go!

I think we've improved in a few areas. Number one, I know now that if he does get out of sight, he'll come back if I just stay still and keeping calling him. At first this was really terrifying, but he proved that he would come back. When he finally did, although I was just short of having a heart attack, I praised him like crazy and gave him yummy treats.

Also, I've gotten better at making it a game. We've tried a few things, but his favorite seems to be if I wave some treats in front of his face and get him drooling, then take off running. When I get about 30-40 feet in front of him, I turn and call him and he absolutely charges me in delight. He seems to have associated coming to me with getting treats, so he always keeps an "eager" eye on me to see what I've got for him.

Last, I think he's finally convinced that returning to me isn't the end of the game. This may be the most important thing, I think. This is probably both me getting better at training him, and him learning to trust me better.

After all, he's a slightly traumatized rescue dog, with plenty of "Manni quirks" that will probably never go away. He spent his first 4 years in G-d only knows where, but where ever it was it wasn't good. I'm just so happy to see him learn to trust me and enjoy playing. When we first got him, he was so disinterested in life it was depressing. He's made so much improvement!

I think you're doing wonderfully. And I don't think he'll carry the past trauma with him forever, at least not to a significant degree....not the way you're describing him. It sounds like he's learing that life is good and that you're it. He'll just keep getting more and more trusting and more eager to learn. Congrats!

Great news! Glad Manni is being a good boy! Now, where did you go hiking ? And what happened at the dog park...................

Like I said in my other thread, we typically go hiking between the Flynn Skating Rink and Wright's Pond. It's a lovely hike back there and typically not too crowded.

As for the dog park, we haven't been back since I last posted here about it several months ago. Manni is weird when it comes to playing with other dogs. He really enjoys himself, but there comes a point in the play where the other dog wants to keep going and Manni doesn't, and he hasn't yet learned a good way of saying "Ok, that's enough, I don't want to play anymore".

The good news is that I've learned to monitor his body language very carefully and have been successful at intervening in his play before he gets upset. Sometimes he even looks up at me with his dopey eyes and says "Can you please get me out of here?" right in the middle of a tumble.

I'm not sure if he'll ever be able to play normally with dogs, but I think we've found an excellent balance between letting him play and keeping him and other dogs safe. It's tricky, but this sort of stuff happens when you rescue a dog from an unknown background.

We've considered enrolling him in a "growly class" with the Zen dog guy. I believe in my heart that Manni wants to be normal, but just doesn't know how. I wonder if the class would actually help him ...

Hi Irotas... my post must have made no sense at all!! My apologies, I mistook you for "jason els", who adopted the 2 Pumik. Have had fun talking to him about the challenges of owning these pups. "Zen dog guy", sounds interesting. Glad to hear Mannis' recalls have improved.

That's great that he can walk off leash now! It's much nicer for the dog not to be tied to anything. Gipsy is ushally off leash on her walks (we have great fields and woods near our house) but it took her a while mostly because of want to bolt (maybe it's a lab thing lol) But not we know if she does bolt, she'll be waiting for us when we get home.

monitoring the body language is good, I can see if she wants to bolt. She'll stand still for a moment and think about...

I posted on this thread before I saw your other one! Sorry about that ! LOL!