Article - your thoughts?

FWIW, what I got from the article was that you were claiming there are just some dogs and some situations where a collar pop is necessary and there's no other way. This is the kind of statement I take issue with.

I don't care if you use collar corrections. Heck, I use prong collars. I don't really care what you teach either, although I personally feel that JQP pet owners don't need to be using prong or choke or electric collars, but that's my opinion and you're welcome to your own.

I do get upset by statements
which very much implies that these things cannot be achieved without collar pops and that those who use PR don't have the same need for reliability.

Reliability is NEVER 100%, no matter what method is used.

And ya know, there are situations where a collar pop does work best for ME and for MY dog and for MY situation. But that doesn't at all mean someone else couldn't get the same results without the collar corrections.

Dog's in training>> do you have a bio online? Just curious as to what your practical experience is. (You know anyone on the internet can read a few things and spout stuff coming across as at the very least well read)


ie: are you an 'armchair philosopher'?

I don't have the time or the energy to respond to everyone, but I did read through this thread and of all the things that struck me while I read (both good and bad), this quote blew my mind. My understanding is that your articles are meant to educate those who find them, and perhaps build a following of readers. So how can that be "writing for yourself?" I understand the concept of staying true to your voice and intent, but whenever you post something online, particularly on a public link, you have to remember that people are going to find it, and they are going to read it - they may even APPLY it, and that's where I draw the line and ensure the advice I'm giving is safe and can be practiced by everyone in the home - even kids. At the end of the day, the only safe advice we can give to each other over the internet is CALL A TRAINER.

Yes, I am also curious.

This about sums it up for me too. I don't have an issue with collar pops or prongs or ecollars. I have an issue with saying you HAVE to use them because other ways don't work.
If you WANT to use them, if that's what you know, if that's what you're comfortable with, if that's what you've had success with, knock yourself out.

But to say "I tried treats and they don't work so I'm going to use a prong. And because the prong worked, that just goes to show that PR doesn't," is rather simplistic and simply not true when looking at the experience of so many PR trainers.

I have used a few light collar pops - though more of a 'hey, bring your attention back to me please and thank'. When Spy or Tucker have been very highly aroused (squirrel, watching flyball, etc.) it is sometimes the only thing that can bring their attention back to me. Yes, I could take Tucker out and desensitize him slowly to squirrels, but realistically, it's not worth the time/effort. When we occasionally run into one and he hones in on it, I will give him a light tug and get his attention back. He is not emotionally traumatized nor upset, more of an "Oh yeah, my bad" and we carry along on our walk. Not the end of the world

Although I would consider myself very PR and clicker-y and do think it is a better system, I don't think people who decide to go with a more 'balanced' system (as you call it) are not necessarily doing wrong by their dogs. Take Tucker, for example. Before I got hooked on clicker training and faded out corrections, he was practically raised and trained on those methods. He is a stable, happy and well adjusted dog. Had I used clicker training and 100% PR, I do think he may have learnt it faster and would have had more fun. But hey, it all worked out ok in the end and he is still happy as a clam and great with people. I can imagine that a more sensitive dog may have had issues with it, but for the average joe with an outgoing lab or what have you I don't think a few mild and properly applied corrections hand in hand with PR will cause problems.

Anyway, always nice to have a different perspective on the forums, so to the writer of the article, it would be cool to see you stick around

Why the management hate? Management gets me through the day!

Although admittedly I am not a dog trainer, just a person with dogs. *shrug*

Clarification on instinctual drift - by Bob Bailey
ClickerSolutions Training Articles -- Instinctive Drift

This is a great definition/explanation, thanks for posting.

So when the OP said way back in post #14:
she's not really talking about instinctive drift. This is why I was a little confused about whether she was talking about the Breland's Instinctive Drift theory, or something else. :dunno: