Obedience heeling help.

Hey guys. I was wondering if anyone could help me with ideas on training Riley to heel for obedience/rally. He is Very good about walking loose lead even on a short leash, but we havnt mastered sticking right to my side. Riley also cannot/will not walk looking up at me. He just doesnt trust not watching where he is going. I really wanted him to be one of those dogs you see in the ring staring up at their owner. I have tried a couple different things. He loves treats, but just wont lure to look up and walk.
I let him nibble the Great treat and look up at me. Great. Now i take a step and either he wont, or he will stop nibbling to watch where he is going. Then he gets senstive that he doesnt understand and shuts down.

So ive decided we can do this without him watching me. The thing is if he heels nicely without watching then when i turn or stop he just keeps on walking straight until i say something or he realizes. Any suggestions? I just want him to heel and pay enough attention to watch were we are going. Thanks!

do you clicker?

if so, use a perch: YouTube - Pi, 9 weeks, perch and heelwork

you have to first teach the dog to place his front paws on the perch. then as you orient yourself around the perch he'll want to orient himself towards you. click the butt movement around the perch. after a while get more butt movement towards your leg by expanding your criteria.

I clicker train as well and use a touch stick to start teaching heel. I don't make Phoebe look at me but if I wanted to I'd click and treat every time she looked up during normal heeling and slowly she should do it more and more. For pivoting I also used the "perch" (my physics book) to teach her to move her back end with me one step at a time.

don't lure.. that is one of the biggest pitfalls.

Clicker really is the way to go. But make sure you start small.. looking up at a standstill etc. Its hard on neck muscles till they are strengthened. Start with one or two steps with attention and build from there. Only reward for attention.

Not all dogs are comfortable with the nose up staring at the owner thing.

They can still learn to maintain heel position by watching other parts of the handler - Tyr looks up when we're at a standstill, but not while walking - he has some neck dscomfort - but he does have an eye on me watching more along the lines of my torso. If he gets tired, his eyes drop to my knee.

I would do left turns so he has to notice. One thing too that helps is to exaggerate turning your shoulders just before you turn. Then when he does look at you, he self-discovers that by watching you, he'll have a heads up that you're about to turn into him. Then do some right turns and RUN as you come out of the turn. Give him huge rewards when he's on his way to you and when he gets to you ~ as he starts coming to you, stop heel training and cheer him on until he gets there, then jackpot him.

And for the nose up staring at your face - I do a ton of luring. I heel with a toy under my arm. I'm building muscle memory.

like corgipower, i use a lot of luring to teach the muscle positions necessary for true heads up heeling. i start with stationary attention and reward looking up in front of me and next to me, with a piece of food. then i will hold food or a toy exactly where i need it to be to get the head position i want, and heel like that for awhile. then the toys/food get "hidden" and they earn them by heads up!

I teach "watch" with a clicker. I find that luring just adds an extra step. You have to teach them later on to stop following your hands with their eyes. I click/treat when the pup looks at me on his/her own....just exercises in the house at first, building on duration and with me moving around in different positions etc. Then add a verbal cue. Then take it on the road, using it in various locations contexts. Personally, I don't like the dog to heel and look up at me the entire time while heeling....only when I ask which is periodically. I just think it's unnatural to walk and crane the neck like that and I don't think it's good for them. But of course, I don't show.

Carrie.. my guys only heel head up whilst working.. never on a normal walk. (actually on walks I often have Snip and Dekka on a coupler and I like them to walk infront of me where I can keep an eye on them. Its cute they trot along like a pair of matched horses)

That's cute. I didn't figure you'd have your dogs looking at you the whole time you're on a walk. LOL. That would be miserable. That sounds so cute how they go on a coupler. I just have two leashes for my two wee ones. They can go in front or along side me. I don't care. They're good at staying far enough away from my feet that I hardly have to worry about stepping on them. And the vast majority of the time, we're hiking in the woods and they don't have any leash on and they usually are ahead of me...sometimes behind me checking out a bush or something. Then they catch up. They don't have to look up at my face. But they do have to "check in" and stay on the "trail." LOL.

he he.. they walk and keep tension on the leash when I power walk. If I want to run a bit I say GO and they run ahead. They know enough not to stop and pee, roll etc... I just wish they were bigger then I could say GO and they could help pull me up hills lmao.

I should take pics...

a couple of pit bulls could help you with that :thumbup:

Wouldn't that be awful if you were running and they stopped in front of you to pee? I can see it now...a tumbling blurr. :lol-sign:

Sounds like you need a big Malamute or Rottweiler to pull you up the hills.

Yes, pictures.

Oh yes! Pit bulls. I forgot about them. They're super strong. One pulled my daughter halfway down the street, dragging her on her knees. She had bad abrasions and cuts on both legs. She was baby sitting an unruly, untrained friend's dog. She hung onto the leash and was showing distress as she lay there on the asphalt. Then he came back and licked her and apologized profusely and never dragged or pulled on the leash again.

The way I do it, the dog isn't following my hands. I have a toy tucked under my arm or chin and he's looking up because of that. It builds up the muscle memory and from there, I fade the toy.

My dogs have a command for formal heeling and a different command for normal walking, where I don't ask for the heads up attention. The formal heeling is difficult for them, and it's a matter of trust because they aren't watching (except out of the corner of their eye) where they're stepping, so they need to trust me to not run them into things (we have had some oopses ).

I gotta say though, there is a noticeable difference in Tyr's heel work when he looks up into my face compared to when he targets his focus lower ~ like my torso or knees.

When he's locked onto my face like that, it's really a dance and we're 100% in sync.

Yes....I love that. And I remember your video too. Wonderful.

Thanks for the responses guys! We have some things to work on.

Yeah... I would definitely start to reward ONLY heeling with eye contact, to really make it clear to him what you want. A clicker is immensely helpful in catching the second he makes eye contact! It also helps a lot to keep heeling exciting. If much of your heeling is walking straight ahead, he doesn't need to keep his eyes on you to watch where you're going. But, if you're doing lots of sudden turns, about turns, stopping, speeding up, slowing down, etc, he will learn that he must watch you.

For my dogs, they do not get rewarded unless they're heeling and watching me, and haven't been since I was training the position itself. I have just always thought of truly "heeling" as doing so at attention.

Thanks!

Excellent point. Very true!

Teaching the dog to walk backwards with you is often helpful for this too.... When they walk backwards their heads naturally come up and it is easy to get eye contact then.

I'm going to try this! It sounds fun.

As if my neighbors don't already think I'm insane stopping, going, spinning around, and erratically turning left and right down the sidewalk...