Aggression...

At FOHA's rescue shelter we once had a viscious little dog! He was 12lbs of old senile nastiness. He had been adopted 12 or 13 years ago and was returned by his owner who was too chickensh!t to take him for a one-way trip to the vet. This little dog would bare his teeth and bite anybody who came near him. You never knew what would set him off. He couldn't even be touched. Since FOHA doesn't euthanize for ANY reason except incurable illness, he sat there for a few weeks until he was adopted by some woman who also has an aggressive cat with neurological problems. She handles him well and also has 1 of our other dogs, a very sweet GSD. But if it weren't for that VERY understanding and big hearted woman, that nasty little dog would have spent his life in a cage! If I could I'd change FOHA's policy on euthanasia to include severe aggression. The "Powers that Be" as we call them often let their hearts get in the way of their heads.

Our local no kill shelter doesnt euthanize for aggression either. It bothers me to no end and is one of the reasons I no longer volunteer with them. It is very cruel to make a dog live it's life out in a cage.

At least at FOHA we have some "long-term dog cottages" that are basically climate controlled sheds with a couch and a fenced in area around them. Its more room and better than a run, but its still not a home. We only have one dog right now I wish they'd PTS, he's nasty and bites and only about four people can even go near him safely. He was a return because the guy's fiance didn't like him.

I agree ToscasMom, a dog like this CAN ABSOLUTELY do a lot of damage. I've gone to bite cases where children are left with horrible injuries from small dogs requiring stitches in the face, it's horrible. My automatic recommendation in those cases is to have the dog removed from the home immediately.

I'm not in any way suggesting that a dog (of any size) should stay in a home where there are small children. Aggression rehab requires a structured environment and is dependant on owner compliance, something that is often times not even possible with those kinds of safety variables. I have to be clear as well that most of my cases are by the owners request. I have no problem recommending the removal a dog if I think a child is at risk in those cases either.

I guess what I have a problem with is the fact that so much of this type of aggression is owner caused. Like RD said, little dogs get away with murder and so they learn what buttons to push because those buttons obviously bring rewards. It's not right, it causes huge problems but in the vast majority of these cases, it's correctable..usually with some owner education.

This isn't a matter of me armchair quarterbacking. The OP's description is all too familiar but of course I know nothing about the details. I obviously don't give assessments/advise for aggression over the phone either, but I've been doing this long enough to know how typical this case sounds. As many of you know, I also do not offer "fixes" over this forum but instead find suitable professionals to do the work in person.

My point is simply this. Seeing posts about dog aggression being compared to human aggression and terms like "one way trip to the Vet" being used so freely is dangerous. This is a dog forum and there are many members and even more lurkers. The last thing I think we want to do is provide no other explaination or advise other than to say it's not worth dealing with.

Aggression is frightening, no doubt about it...but 9 times out of 10 it is totally human caused and can be treated effectively and with very little risk to the adult (compliant) owner. I have not had ONE rehab case re-offend in more years than I care to remember.

I don't care what breed we're talking about, a dog should be able to be handled. I have no use for a dog that's otherwise. All dogs have pointy teeth and can cause scarring and disfiguration. All dogs should learn to inhibit their bite towards humans, whether its a Yorkie or a Rottie. New laws are created all the time which further restrict dog ownership, and its because of people allowing their dogs to get away with this kind of craziness. If people would handle their business and not draw distinctions between which dogs are allowed to bite and which are not, we'd be in a much better situation, IMO.

I agree that ALL OWNERS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR TEACHING BITE INHIBITION TO THEIR DOGS. This is not an automatic given for any dog.

Again, owners screw them up, they bite someone and the dog dies or goes on to do the same....owner gets another dog and they cycle starts all over again. Euthanasia is not a quick fix for owner ignorance but it's used all the time.

Whatever happened to an owners responsibility?

Been wondering .....do any of you think that small dogs' issues could be due to breeders treating pups too gingerly and coddling them too much ?? Also , the stay with breeder longer than larger breeds.

That's a good point Grammy and something that was brought up in a reproduction/whelping seminar recently. I've noticed that with some small breeds.. particularly Chihuahuas/yorkies/poodles, many times the ones kept with the breeder longer (which is important) tend to be more timid. The ones getting the earlier socialization are often more outgoing.
It for sure has a lot to do with owner coddling. I started 3 classes a couple of weeks ago and while I normally only get maybe 1 chi for every 36 dogs, this time I ended up with 4. Only one of the four is social. The other 3 came into class in little pouches, one lady even had leopard spotted slippers to match the snuggley that her little male chi was in. She was none to happy when I asked that everyone allow their dogs to walk into class safely and that we would be allowing safe socialization. The tiny dog owners often have to be asked SEVERAL times to please put their dogs back down on the floor. It's very frustrating.

I often times will have the owners drop the wee ones leashes while all other dogs are kept on leash so that they can explore and feel what it's like to actually see a dog eye to eye. By class six those same little dogs are excited to come into class and I have lots of pictures of Chi's play bowing with Goldens too prove it.

Hmmm... I wouldn't have thought human aggression would be "owner caused" at that high of a percentage. Not that I am dissagreeing... Just curious as to what owner actions might cause a dog to turn vicious?
I personally have never had a human aggressive dog.... does that mean I am doing something right? :lol-sign: I bet I just have been lucky, especially with having small children around for the last 17 years...

Could it also be "human caused" that a dog becomes dog aggressive?
I realize there is a major difference in dog aggression and human aggression...I also don't think I have done anything to contribute to Shiloh attacking other dogs.... I know you didn't say this about dog aggression, so just asking... This is also my first dog aggressive dog.

Julie.

Its gone the way of the dinosaur and the dodo. We need warning labels to tell us that coffee will be hot, or that a wet floor is going to be slippery, or that you shouldn't blowdry your hair while standing in a full bathtub. I was making some kind of dinner the other day that said "caution, dinner will be hot" when you take it out of the microwave.

People don't take responsibility for their actions anymore. They put it off on somebody or something else. I blame it partly on the fear of being sued for every little thing. If somebody says "Yes, I screwed up," their lawyer would have a coronary.

i can only speak to the dog-aggression part, but yes, i believe that as owners we can feed it. maybe not cause it, but certainly encourage it, especially if the dogs are reactive out of fear. the dog gets tweaked about a dog, the owner a) coddles or b)physically corrects. either way, the dog learns that yeah, there is something to get upset about. and it just kind of turns into a vicious cycle and builds.

i don't think that's why all dogs are dog-aggro, and i think that that kind of dog-aggression is much easier to fix than that which is innate (like luce's dog-aggression). mushroom's dog-aggression is much more of the second type, although he'd get tweaked about a dog and luce would go after him. still, he learned that there was something to fear. it only took a few sessions of hot dogs and praise and he's 1000% better. luce's dog-aggression took much MUCH longer to tame, and she's still not dog-friendly. she's still dog-aggressive. she's just less dog-reactive.

Sorry if I am getting this thread off topic...but just one more quick thing...
Shiloh does not get tweaked out about other dogs.... She doesn't bark or growl at them.... she would even play temorarily and you never know if she will attack in two minutes or two hours... Then she just grabs a hold of a dogs neck and won't let go...
She can hunt beside dogs and because she is more interested in hunting than another dog... she doesn't pay any attention to them...

I am just really confused about her.. so we just keep her seperated and it gets to be a real pain in the butt...

I definately believe that a good chunk of dog aggression in small dogs comes from the owners coddling the dogs. I see more small dogs in the arms of owners than on the ground... even at the dog park, people will bring their small dogs and just hold them. I met a girl who thought it was cute that her chihuahua was growling and trying to attack the other dogs from her arms. "He's such a little meanie," she chuckled. Little dogs NEED to be socialized... little dogs are easier to control, yes, but there is no reason for them to not be trained and taught to act like good citizens.

I'm actually doing a research project on anthropomorphism and small dogs for my psychology research group. I definately believe that more little dogs are humanized, and owners baby them too much to work with them or train them. It's just sad for little dogs.

I doubt if many small dog breeders allow early handling ..... this is where I started .