The Trainers Game

lizzybeth727

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#61
Ok, I think we've seriously lost the point of this thread:

This is the game:
Give a brief case history of a problem: breed, sex, age and problem. Then the rest of us ask questions and ideas of how we would solve the issue. Then the trainer that posted the 'problem' can tell us how they solved it.
Muttsandaboston, I think you'll get better responses if you start your own thread posting this question. A few questions you can answer in the new thread: Has she always growled like this for you or is this a new problem? Does she only growl when you pick her up? Why did you pick her up quickly if you knew she gets a little grumpy when you pick her up?
 

DanL

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#63
All you guys know that the real answer is the same for every problem. Quick and liberal use of the stave. There, now go train!
 

Brattina88

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#64
I don't have any experience with a singleton pup, sounds like they have waited to long to do anything proactive. I would search the net for books or info on raising a singleton, I know they can be a challenge. And it sounds like he has the typical problems associated with them.

Can they not use his dam to teach him better manners and socializing?
Thanks for the input, I'll pass it along.
They were using the dam to help him learn from her manners with his socialization, but when he started to act fearful - hiding, screaming, she started to act protective - posturing, glaring, and even growling, so it was my idea to put an end to that and use an unrelated dog. ;)
I appriciate all your advice!

All you guys know that the real answer is the same for every problem. Quick and liberal use of the stave. There, now go train!
I knew it! :lol-sign:
 

adojrts

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#65
Thanks for the input, I'll pass it along.
They were using the dam to help him learn from her manners with his socialization, but when he started to act fearful - hiding, screaming, she started to act protective - posturing, glaring, and even growling, so it was my idea to put an end to that and use an unrelated dog. ;)
I appriciate all your advice!
:
What about speaking to the vet about some mild sedation? Or some anti-A?
I have never heard of a vet giving those kinds of meds to a very young pup, but who knows.
Or the meds could be given to the dam to calm her down, then continue with the training. That could be an option.

Good luck
 

protodog

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#67
Okay, here's a case:
I found a puppy (4 to 4.5 months old) running loose in a parking lot. She had terrible infections in both ears and three kinds of worms. She was very outgoing with both people and other dogs but had a separation anxiety problem. Whenever I would leave, she would immediately lose control of both her bladder and bowels, and she was very destructive. She was a high energy, landshark type anyway, but the SA made the level of destruction even worse.

I got a 36 inch airline type crate on sale but couldn't get her to use it. She wouldn't chase a treat in, now matter how high value it was, and wouldn't even take one from the outer lip of the crate. The crate was clearly the Black Hole of Death. She would take a treat that was near the crate, but if the treat touched the crate, she'd have nothing to do with it.

I tried taking the top off of the crate and had no trouble getting her to go into the topless bottom, but once I tried to make the transition to going in or even just sticking her head in with the top on, she'd shut down. I couldn't afford a different kind of crate because I was spending all of my extra money on her medical bills. Because she was a found puppy, I didn't have a reserve fund for puppy problems.

So, how would you get the puppy into the crate?

Note: the puppy, now a dog, is perfectly comfortable inside a crate and is even trustworthy in a soft crate.
 

adojrts

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#68
Just to be clear, you only had the option of the one crate, correct? So I am assuming you couldn't trade, beg or borrow another crate.
 

protodog

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#69
Correct--I only had the option of the one crate. My other dog-owning friends didn't use crates, except for one, who had the exact same model I had.
 

adojrts

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#70
Ok, the first thing that comes to mind is to try one or all of these methods and see if they worked.
One I would feed her beside the crate, slowly getting her closer until I could toss her food into it. Make a game of it.
I would also try to clicker train her to it with shaping the behaviour of getting her into it.
One thing I wouldn't do, is push, pull or shove her into it.

Another thing I would try, is since she would go into it with the bottom only on. I would try to safely suspend the top or block it up so she could see out clearly. And as she accepted it, slowly lower the top.

Still thinking as to what other methods I would try...............:D
 

protodog

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#71
Ok, the first thing that comes to mind is to try one or all of these methods and see if they worked.
One I would feed her beside the crate, slowly getting her closer until I could toss her food into it. Make a game of it.
I've seen this method work well with some dogs, but in my puppy's case, she just wasn't that into food. Whenever she would actually show any interest in her food, I would freeze in place so as not to distract her.
I would also try to clicker train her to it with shaping the behaviour of getting her into it.
This approach might have worked, depending on the reinforcer. The puppy would spit out filet mignon.
One thing I wouldn't do, is push, pull or shove her into it.
I agree completely. I never tried to force her into the crate.

Another thing I would try, is since she would go into it with the bottom only on. I would try to safely suspend the top or block it up so she could see out clearly. And as she accepted it, slowly lower the top.
I could see this approach working if the set up were really sturdy, and you were able to maintain control over the top. If the top accidentally fell, the puppy's fears that the crate was the Black Hole of Death would be confirmed.
 

corgipower

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#72
the puppy's fears that the crate was the Black Hole of Death would be confirmed.
Well, since you couldn't get a different crate, you could punch some holes into the crate you did have to allow for more visibility, light.

Another thing, as silly as it sounds, would be for you to crawl into the crate (if you fit).
 

protodog

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#73
Another thing, as silly as it sounds, would be for you to crawl into the crate (if you fit).
That's exactly how I solved the problem. Because of her SA, she wanted to be with me more than she wanted anything else, so I turned myself into the lure. She followed me right in. I started bringing some of her favorite toys with me, and we'd play (in a very squished sort of way). From there, I was able to turn the crate into a game in which I toss in the toy, and we'd "race" to get it, and because she was quicker, she'd be the one in the back of the crate, and I'd crawl in after her. I kept using the toy, but put my crawling in as a reinforcer on a variable schedule. After she had built up very positive associations with the crate, I was able to move onto more "regular" crate training. In just a couple of days, she could be left in the crate while I went to work.
 

adojrts

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#74
That's exactly how I solved the problem. Because of her SA, she wanted to be with me more than she wanted anything else, so I turned myself into the lure. She followed me right in. I started bringing some of her favorite toys with me, and we'd play (in a very squished sort of way). From there, I was able to turn the crate into a game in which I toss in the toy, and we'd "race" to get it, and because she was quicker, she'd be the one in the back of the crate, and I'd crawl in after her. I kept using the toy, but put my crawling in as a reinforcer on a variable schedule. After she had built up very positive associations with the crate, I was able to move onto more "regular" crate training. In just a couple of days, she could be left in the crate while I went to work.

:hail::hail::hail: Excellent!!!

Gezzz I forgot you said she had SA, CP well done for figuring it out.
 

Hillside

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#77
Well, since you couldn't get a different crate, you could punch some holes into the crate you did have to allow for more visibility, light.

Another thing, as silly as it sounds, would be for you to crawl into the crate (if you fit).

I was going to suggest this too, but I felt silly thinking it. :rofl1:
 

adojrts

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#78
I was going to suggest this too, but I felt silly thinking it. :rofl1:
Solving a training issue especially one that you have never heard of before or not experienced demands that the person ask questions (whether that be to the animal, other people or to themselves) and one thing is always clear. Very seldom is a idea silly, it should be thrown out there to be discussed or examined.

Ok, someone has to have another case!!!!
 

corgipower

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#79
I was going to suggest this too, but I felt silly thinking it. :rofl1:
I find myself doing silly things quite often when training a dog. The dogs get a kick out of it. Bonus points to you for thinking of it.

Ok, someone has to have another case!!!!
Kinda...Same dog as in the first problem -- 2 year old aussie/rott mix. She was being trained in competition obedience. She did absolutely beautiful - picture perfect - heeling. All paces, halts, left turns, right turns. Her about turns however were not so good. She would go about three or four feet away from me to the left and then after the turn she would scramble back to heel position.
 

Hillside

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#80
Solving a training issue especially one that you have never heard of before or not experienced demands that the person ask questions (whether that be to the animal, other people or to themselves) and one thing is always clear. Very seldom is a idea silly, it should be thrown out there to be discussed or examined.

Ok, someone has to have another case!!!!
See, I totally would have done it though. :lol-sign: Might not have told anybody, but I have done sillier things.
 

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