Opinions on this horse...conformation etc....

Hi

I'm going to look at this horse next week. Any feedback, comments on how he is built--strengths weaknesses etc would be great. I want to use him for local shows--probably jumping about 2"6 and maybe some hunter paces.
There are some youtube clips of him--I'll post the links to those later. Thanks for looking and all opinions welcome! (By the way I've never had a spotted horse of any type --my other horse is solid balck--totally solid has always been my favorite--this horse is just so insanely loud that it appealed to me--almost like opposites attract I guess LOL ! ) And he is not pure App--he is a cross, but they do not know with what--any guesses??? Thanks!

http://www.equine.com/horses/ad_details.aspx?lid=353620

Wow he certainly is flashy! Beautiful!! I don't know much about conformation, so I don't have much to offer in that department. How experienced a rider are you, because it says he's only been in training for 60 days and was green broke before that... is that enough that he'll be a steady ride? I mean it wouldn't be for me at all, but I have minimal experience and pretty much need a horse with years of experience being ridden to help me out

maybe you should ask a horse forum

He looks like he should be quite capable of the level of work you want him to be able to do - and his coloring is great! Are you thinking of him for hunter classes at the shows? If so, keep in mind that his color may work against him, depending on the judge. He's clearly not your typical TB hunter Also, if you are going to stand out like that, you are going to be remembered! That means if you do well or if you do bad. Blending in works to your advantage sometimes. I once fell off my very typical bay TB hunter during a large (20+ horses) undersaddle. I was off him for most of the class before getting a leg back up to go into the line-up. The judge didn't see me fall, never noticed I was missing for half the class, and placed us first!

Anyway, conformation. He does have a pretty straight and heavy shoulder. You can see in the trot picture, his forearm is extended as far as it is going to go. Again, for local hunter shows, it shouldn't be an issue; his trot is quite nice for that. I would be more concerned over larger fences (where he may not be able to get his front legs up enough) or if you were looking at second level or higher dressage. Also, look at his right hind carefully in person. It may just be the way he's standing, but it looks like he toes out quite a bit.

He looks very pleasant and relaxed in the jumping picture. Certainly well worth taking a look at! Be sure and post later to say how it went.

He looks like a nice, solid horse just like you said. His conformation isn't perfect but for what you want he'd probably be a good option. His back looks a little flat and his neck is pretty thick. His legs are kind of funny. His front hooves look like they stick out from under his fetlocks while the back ones are the opposite. That doesn't necessarily mean anything though. Not for you purposes. He sounds like he's got a good start too. I'd consider him if the price was right and he wasn't too far away. Speaking of the price I don't know what horses are going for near you but for a young, horse that's just been started and isn't papered that's a bit high.

Wow, thank you all so much thats is EXACTLY the kind of feedback I was looking for---I too had taken note of his straight shoulder and sort of shortish neck--I defintely will take a close lookat those legs and feet. But as you all have pointed out my goals are modest so I have to take several things into consideration. Below are the video clip links--they are poor quality but can give you and idea about his movement and attitude. I have gotten several long e-mails from the trainer telling me more about him. He is green, but sounds very willing and fairly uncomplicated.
And BostonBanker--I know exactly what you mean about standing out--years ago I saw several paint horse people struggle with that. The level I will be showing--it won't bother me--at least I don't think so! For some reason the different is what appeals to me at this point. Also that story about you falling off and winning the class is one of the funniest things I've heard in a long time:lol-sign: I've seen a lot of things, but never that--thats a classic!
Also, Saje--I agree with you about the price-- He is green--the unpapered part--it really depends on how talented he is, but yes I think he might be priced a bit high--I think sometimes people do that on equine.com to see what happens. So I have several things to consider--and no, he is not that close to me--but I might be looking at other horses in the area too. Thanks again and I would love to hear what you all think of the video clips.

oops! here are the clips!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0V_DQ9BI1MM (Trot clip)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2vQtlsZD5U (canter
clip)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah1xNDwC_JU (jumping
clip)

Yikes, that really is high in my opinion. I purchased a retired (11 year old so still had a lot of show left in him) A circut jumper for half that amount five years ago. But maybe it's changed a lot since then.

He's a very nice looking horse, I won't repeat what others have said about the shoulder and neck, but I will say his colors make me smile. If you can get them to cut the price in half I'd say go for it.

The price certainly isn't that out there for our area, anyway.

How green of a horse are you prepared to deal with? Remember, the video clips are the very best bits they got on tape - and he is very fussy with his head, especially in the trot clip. What can I say, I do dressage now - that drives me crazy! And I'm surprised to see a horse who seems that green on the flat jumping. He certainly is quiet going to the jumps, but doesn't appear to get his change at the end (although it is a bit hard to see).

Just a couple more things to consider. If you have other horses to look at in the area, I'd certainly think he's worth looking at.

lol it's really hard to tell from the video but he seems to move nicely. When he trots he looks like he's tippy toeing around on his back feet.

Hi BostonBanker--I agree about the fussy head and I asked her about it the other day--the trainer admitted he is fussy if pushed for collection, but she thinks he will work through it eventually--that might wind up being the deal breaker on this horse. I also was hoping not to go quite that green this time. I've had very very green horses before and it has been fine, but this time, for once, I wanted to go more experienced . But something about him still appeals to me, so I will take a look. There is one and possibly 2 other horses for me to look at in Virginia--I might make a weekend out of it. I promised myself I am taking my time this time--I am in no hurry to get another horse. I don't have to have one until I get my horse property all settled probably late next spring--and then I need another horse so my current one won't be alone. I just can't resist looking though!
Also, I don't know what my thing is with spots lately, but the other horse I want to go see (figures its in Ontario! LOL!) is this one at www.123apache.com. Its probably more horse than I need for my goals, but wow, would it be nice to have a "schoolmaster" for a change! Thanks so much for the insights and please anyone else feel free to chime in! This is really so helpfull to me!

Hi Saje---hmm, I didn't really notice the tippy toeing, I will have to take a closer look. Do you think its a soundness thing , or just the way he moves? Not that it should make a difference, but the trainer did mention he is barefoot at this time.

I hear you! I got my horse as a 3 year old who had about 20 rides under his belt. I adore him, but I swear my next horse is going to be at least eighteen! My obsession is with the old guys.

You do love those spots, huh?

I keep trying to think of horses around here that fit your needs - for once, there aren't many horses at either of my barns for sale! Babies, dressage horses, and a couple of $$$ hunters. And no Appys

Have a fun weekend horse shopping!

In my honest opinion.... Not going to pull punches (sorry) he's not a sound investment.

His back is too long.. I personally prefer a jumper to be much more closely coupled, it makes for less strain on the lower back when jumping regularly. Plus he will have alot less power than a shorter backed horse.

His shoulder is too upright, will make him choppy in his movement and uncomfortable to be on for long periods of time. I can see from the picture of him trotting that he doesn't have alot of extention through the front leg.... This would worry me... especially for showing purposes.

His rear pasterns are too upright, not ideal for a jumper as it puts alot more strain on the legs, leading to splints and tendon injuries. Although with the height you have mentioned it probably wouldn't be a problem as long as the ground wasn't too hard. It's not something that I would be comfortable with, especially in an unproven 5 yr old.

I don't know if it's just the photo but he looks to me to be a little back at the knee??!

But if you go to see him and you feel a connection and fall in love then, sometimes you just have to go with your heart don't cha!

Just out of curiousity why would you want an appy for jumping? I mean, they are really neat horses and just gorgeous but that's not what they were bred for.

You could get a horse like this for the same price

http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org/classifieds/ad149391

Hi BostonBanker--yes the greenies can be rewarding but exhausting--my current horse I got at 2 yrs old--he is now 6 and is just my favorite horse ever--he is soo much fun and such a character and I think he gorgeous (of course! LOL!) He is an awesome trail horse and every once in awhile I take him to a fun/ games show. He is a gaited Rocky Mountain horse but can walk/trot/ canter if I need him to (most of the time anway!) As much as I love him and enjoy him--I'm itching to return to the local hunter circuit I've been away from for more than 4 years --now that I am getting a property and can justify the second horse--I want it to be something I can go back to the circuit with, but doesn't have to be "A" show material--just something I feel safe with and can have some fun on while being reasonably competitive.
Oh, and no spots required! I have NEVER been attracted to spots before--I don't know whats gotten into me the past few days! My only absolute requirements are a gelding, close to 16h or better, sound, that I get along with.
Gustav, thank you for that analysis, I am always grateful for people who can do that kind of analysis--a lot of times I don't trust my own opinions when it comes to stuff like that. I don't know if I will jump enough to cause him problems, but it is defintely something to consider. I'll look, but be keeping all this stuff very much in mind.
Saje, I know Appy's aren't all made for jumping--in fact I've occasionally had some rather disparaging things to say about Appy's, but, this horse is a cross--as is the other horse I posted the link to. Apparently there are numerous successfull spotted sport horses that are crosses with appy type markings that are very good jumpers etc. As mentioned above I don't know whats come over me with these spotted horses, but I'm checking it out anway--but that doesn't mean I'm getting one--just satisfying my curiosity and seeing what happens.
Thats a beautiful hunter in that link--but, and I hope no one takes offense, I am just so not a TB person. I've ridden and known many nice TB's, but they are just not for me.
I will keep everyone posted on my quest! I know there are several more horse owners who are on here who might not have seen this yet. I am really learning a lot from this so please keep the posts coming and tell others you know to join in! I'll post more info and updates as I get them--and might even posts some more horse ads. Thanks!

It's not offensive at all if you don't like a breed. This has to be your decision. It's your horse you're going to be working with. I know I was and probably always will be a diehard arab fan. My first horse was an arab and I just loved her to death. I got pulled into that circle But I find myself liking all breeds now and seeing the strong points in them. They all have something to offer That doens't mean I'd buy them all! lol

No problem, that's what I am here for!! I am a die hard jumper, starting on the 4ft circut next year with my new mare... If I know one thing it's jumpers!

A second opinion is always useful, sometimes you just go too far with the heart and not far enough with the head! You need to go with someone detached!! They will spot (Pardon the pun) something that you missed everytime!

Wow, 4ft!!!! That is awesome! Good luck, I know you will have a blast! I would love to hear all about your mare (you can pm me if you want) I hope you don't mind if I send you photos of some of my other "propspects". You seem to have a spectacular "eye"--What did you think of the horse at www.123apache.com ? Thanks again!