Breeding Ethics
- Thread starter Bowowee
- Start date
We rescued a bitch bred every season from a tire lot in Queens.
She ate rats to help feed the pups.
She had a litter every year of her life for 5 years.
Even thou the pups did survive and she did as well.
I would expect it to cut out her life shorter than most who have not had that many litters let alone every year
.
Breeding every season should never be done, "ethically" but as evident by this rescue we got can be done.
She still has a habit of killing rats vs eating kibble very hard habit to break for the foster home.
The first question was every season and no matter who answers it should be NO no matter the Vet a OK.
Back to back breedings on dogs who cycle 3-4 times a year is not ok either.
However some breeds only cycle ever 9-13 months Molossers
And even thou a back to back is ok for some _it can RUIN a bitch _ or kill her.
Working dogs and show dogs are VERY hard to breed often cause you lose the ability to title when they are whelping..
So most ethical breeders wont do it they can lose so much in competition.
She ate rats to help feed the pups.
She had a litter every year of her life for 5 years.
Even thou the pups did survive and she did as well.
I would expect it to cut out her life shorter than most who have not had that many litters let alone every year
.
Breeding every season should never be done, "ethically" but as evident by this rescue we got can be done.
She still has a habit of killing rats vs eating kibble very hard habit to break for the foster home.
The first question was every season and no matter who answers it should be NO no matter the Vet a OK.
Back to back breedings on dogs who cycle 3-4 times a year is not ok either.
However some breeds only cycle ever 9-13 months Molossers
And even thou a back to back is ok for some _it can RUIN a bitch _ or kill her.
Working dogs and show dogs are VERY hard to breed often cause you lose the ability to title when they are whelping..
So most ethical breeders wont do it they can lose so much in competition.
Dr. Hutch not only says that the uterus deteriorates with every season, he goes further, saying that a pregnant uterus is MORE healthy than a non-pregnant one.
A bitch's body goes through the exact same thing whether she is carrying puppies or not. Her uterus goes through the motions of having pups even when she has not been bred. This is what happens to animals who's cycles are progesterone based vs. estrogen based. Dogs are progesterone based cyclers. Their progesterone level is what causes them to be able to carry pups. A drop in their progesterone level is what causes them to go into labour. That progesterone level pattern is the same, carrying puppies or not. Its affect to the uterus is the same, whether she carries puppies or not.
I have bred back to back. I would do it again.
If I have a bitch who cycled every four months, I would NOT back to back breed that bitch. Heck, I might not ever breed that bitch. In my breed, I would worry about what underlying health condition is causing her progesterone levels to act in such a way.
If I have a bitch who cycles every 6-7 months, I would consider back to back breeding her, then give her a break. I have done this. But there are circumstances that I have to consider... the condition of the bitch, what kind of mom she was, how she "liked" having puppies, how she recovered from having puppies. There are a lot of variables to consider.
If I had a quality bitch who produced quality puppies that cycled once a year, she would likely be bred back to back.
It's easy for us women who have had children to say that they would never allow a bitch to be bred back to back, based on their own experiences of carrying a child, delivering that child, raising that child. But, in dogs it is different. They don't cycle every 21 days and then are done until next time. Their progesterone based cycles affect them very differently. Because of those progesterone levels, their uterus is in effect, damaged by each and every cycle. And this is why I believe so strongly in spaying non-breeding animals.
A bitch's body goes through the exact same thing whether she is carrying puppies or not. Her uterus goes through the motions of having pups even when she has not been bred. This is what happens to animals who's cycles are progesterone based vs. estrogen based. Dogs are progesterone based cyclers. Their progesterone level is what causes them to be able to carry pups. A drop in their progesterone level is what causes them to go into labour. That progesterone level pattern is the same, carrying puppies or not. Its affect to the uterus is the same, whether she carries puppies or not.
I have bred back to back. I would do it again.
If I have a bitch who cycled every four months, I would NOT back to back breed that bitch. Heck, I might not ever breed that bitch. In my breed, I would worry about what underlying health condition is causing her progesterone levels to act in such a way.
If I have a bitch who cycles every 6-7 months, I would consider back to back breeding her, then give her a break. I have done this. But there are circumstances that I have to consider... the condition of the bitch, what kind of mom she was, how she "liked" having puppies, how she recovered from having puppies. There are a lot of variables to consider.
If I had a quality bitch who produced quality puppies that cycled once a year, she would likely be bred back to back.
It's easy for us women who have had children to say that they would never allow a bitch to be bred back to back, based on their own experiences of carrying a child, delivering that child, raising that child. But, in dogs it is different. They don't cycle every 21 days and then are done until next time. Their progesterone based cycles affect them very differently. Because of those progesterone levels, their uterus is in effect, damaged by each and every cycle. And this is why I believe so strongly in spaying non-breeding animals.
Spriit thanks for the post I like to learn something to make me wonder more.
I will one day breed a bitch 2x in a year IF she recovers well, I need the line and the pets are spoken for.
Ive heard some of the little breeds cycle every 3-4 months but I never owned one.
My can go every 13 months or 6-9 depending on if we get a full seasons of winter fall summer etc- when we skip a season we skip a cycle for the dogs.
Regards to make money ? NO
I just went back to work to WORK for my dog hobby.
My hubby makes enough for our farm and our animals .
But now that we have 12 dogs and I still want to show and breed , work, buy livestock and health certify it cost more money then my 1-2 litters a year.
This year alone with 2 spays, 2 collections by Dr hutch, one penn hip, 2 old dog check ups, ukc reg , and dog food I am in the red .
The dogs shows & livestock has to be paid by my new job.
I do hope one day to break even
Some breeders do make some money but reinvest into the dog hobby by buying more things to make money . Like a mirco chip business, a tag making machine, etc.
First thousand I ever make I will buy one of those machines so I can stop having to make tags each time a working dog loses it in the back fields.
I will one day breed a bitch 2x in a year IF she recovers well, I need the line and the pets are spoken for.
Ive heard some of the little breeds cycle every 3-4 months but I never owned one.
My can go every 13 months or 6-9 depending on if we get a full seasons of winter fall summer etc- when we skip a season we skip a cycle for the dogs.
Regards to make money ? NO
I just went back to work to WORK for my dog hobby.
My hubby makes enough for our farm and our animals .
But now that we have 12 dogs and I still want to show and breed , work, buy livestock and health certify it cost more money then my 1-2 litters a year.
This year alone with 2 spays, 2 collections by Dr hutch, one penn hip, 2 old dog check ups, ukc reg , and dog food I am in the red .
The dogs shows & livestock has to be paid by my new job.
I do hope one day to break even
Some breeders do make some money but reinvest into the dog hobby by buying more things to make money . Like a mirco chip business, a tag making machine, etc.
First thousand I ever make I will buy one of those machines so I can stop having to make tags each time a working dog loses it in the back fields.
This is an excellent post!
When I was breeding {now I just mentor} I bred after the bitch was two years old and I bred for three litters in a row at most not always. Then the bitch was spayed and placed in a loving family home or donated to a service department if she fulfilled the requirements for such a life.
This meant that at the absolute latest my bitches breeding careers were over a four years old and left with long loving lives as family pets.
If a bitch was run down at any point; they were retired and spayed; breeding career was over!
As far as making money in breeding or dogs in general; cannot and will not happen. If it does then someone is doing something wrong! There is no money in dogs it is done for the love of the breed and the love of the dog.
When I was breeding {now I just mentor} I bred after the bitch was two years old and I bred for three litters in a row at most not always. Then the bitch was spayed and placed in a loving family home or donated to a service department if she fulfilled the requirements for such a life.
This meant that at the absolute latest my bitches breeding careers were over a four years old and left with long loving lives as family pets.
If a bitch was run down at any point; they were retired and spayed; breeding career was over!
As far as making money in breeding or dogs in general; cannot and will not happen. If it does then someone is doing something wrong! There is no money in dogs it is done for the love of the breed and the love of the dog.
R
I personally see no issue with back to back breedings as long as the bitch is healthy, in blooming physical condition, and all the right homework has been done.
For my current bitch I would like to breed her quickly so that I can spay her and concentrate on her working career. I imagine she will be done and spayed before she is 5.
For my current bitch I would like to breed her quickly so that I can spay her and concentrate on her working career. I imagine she will be done and spayed before she is 5.
i would NEVER breed my breed back to back, chis just arnt strong enough whelpers in general as it is. i would NEVER back to back breed any breed who typically has a hard labour (bulldogs, toy breeds, ect)
i personally wouldnt do it with any other breed either but thats just me and i know it CAN be done safely if doen right!
as for breeding dogs as a primary source of income ANY good breeder will tell you, if your making a profit off your litter your cutting corners somewhere!
Most good breeders are lucky to break even when considering costs fo titling, and healthchecks on their dogs.
i personally wouldnt do it with any other breed either but thats just me and i know it CAN be done safely if doen right!
as for breeding dogs as a primary source of income ANY good breeder will tell you, if your making a profit off your litter your cutting corners somewhere!
Most good breeders are lucky to break even when considering costs fo titling, and healthchecks on their dogs.
In that case I really don't think it's possible. If you put forth all the money in showing, testing and raising the dogs and puppies I don't think you could ever make enough to support you, unless you have some sort of billionaire family or win the lottery of course! that's just my opinion, I mean how will the breeder make any money if he does all those things, he MIGHT break even EVENTUALLY. What breeders have you seen that use breeding as there sole income yet still show and do health screenings?
that's just my opinion, I mean how will the breeder make any money if he does all those things, he MIGHT break even EVENTUALLY. What breeders have you seen that use breeding as there sole income yet still show and do health screenings?
NO breeder will ever get rich off of breeding, excuse me...NO REPUTABLE BREEDER will, at least not for a long, long time, than maybe he'd make a few extra bucks, but never rich.
You have no idea!
Only BYB and puppy peddlers make money and that is UNETHICLE, and what reputable breeder EVER has 6 litters a year and still be a reputable breeder and ethicle??Not happening!There would simply never be enough time, couldnt be done. As a matter of fact, that sounds pretty disgusting to me.
You have no idea!
Only BYB and puppy peddlers make money and that is UNETHICLE, and what reputable breeder EVER has 6 litters a year and still be a reputable breeder and ethicle??Not happening!There would simply never be enough time, couldnt be done. As a matter of fact, that sounds pretty disgusting to me.