Protection Dog

Yup.
Except for me, having the dog around makes my anxiety virtually non-existent.

But I did have a pit bull who made every effort to protect me from lightning and hail. As I sat on the couch, looking out the window and being worried, the dog jumped up next to me, stared outside and growled.

Dan, excellent post!

I have heard this also. Is this the norm with mals or the results of bad breeding/poor socialization? And yes, it appears we do have similar tastes! :lol-sign:

Just to clear one thing up: I do not have any sort of anxiety disorder. In fact, during the day I am totally, completely confident. At night I am too, unless it is late (past around 9), it is dark out, and I am alone in my house. That is when I get a little leery. Also when falling asleep, I like to have one of my dogs in my room as I find I have an easier time falling asleep because I feel safer.

Although I am unfamiliar with mals and dutchies, I have been exposed to a lot of ACDs, some with typical and some with non-typical behavior so I am aware of what they are like. Do you really think they are on the same level as mals and dutchies though? I know they are some tough dogs but I don't think in terms of ease of owning, that they are on the same playing field as the dutchie/mal.

I never thought of the intimidation factor vs. actually going through with protecting me. On second thought, I do think I would prefer a dog that would maybe bark/show some teeth, then a dog who would go for the bite.

This sounds like what I had in mind

Thanks for the replies everyone, lots of new info for me to go through. Just incase any of you are concerned, I would never buy a dog on a whim, lots of time, energy, and research will go into acquiring this dog in the future. So no worries!

if you think what im looking for is also what your looking for look into some of the spanish mastif types, even the wolfhound and from what ive read the borzoi (though im sure romy could correct me on that it im wrong)
now be warned the masitfs like the fila and the cane corso ect are ALOT of dog, they tend to be incredibly standoffish with strangers even when super socilized, they require training and boundries from day one.
renee can tell you all about the fila temperment.
they take a while to bond to you, but once that bond is formed these dogs will protect and do so with their full being...
BUT they also tend to be more independant thinkers who can look at you go "oh shes just jumping at shadows but ill check anyway" do a quick partol then return to your side to go to sleep.

least as far as ive been reading and learning from the owners ive been talking to as im putting serious thought into adding a dog like this to the family when i move out as ill be a single younger female hopefully living out in the country with very few people to call in an emergency, and those i could would likley be far away...
i also have some anxiety issues so of course need that independant thought kind of dog who wont feed off my anxiety but instead just let me know there there...(ie bracing me)

but again these are LARGE dogs with BIG personalities and BAD raps...so definatly some thought would need to go into if you can handle the typical traits.

right now the fila and boerboel are the top of the list, pressa and cane are spot #2, ive still got a long while before i have to worry about it though lol.
you also have to be concerned with these breeds with other dogs.

A short fuse and reactivity is the result of poor breeding. Actually, the missing off switch is also the result of poor breeding, but has become so common people overlook it when choosing what to breed.

Nyx has that short fuse and reactivity. Her bloodline is known for it. There are people who actually like that and will continue to breed for dogs like her. Granted, when I'm able to channel her in the right direction, she's amazing and I can see what the attraction is, but it's really not correct.

It is very possible to find malis that don't have the short fuse and reactivity issues and that are environmentally stable. It's more difficult to find one with an off switch, but even that can be done.

I don't suggest a mali if you're not experienced with high drive/high energy dogs and if you don't have a plan for lots of exercise and training.

What is with people NOT reading posts?!

Dan I said 99% of show dobes I know would protect you if needed. They wouldnt nessisarily be able to do PP sport, but they would atack an intruder or atacker.

It's pretty hit or miss with borzoi honestly, whether they'd stand up to a threat or not. There are too many out there with really fearful, skittish temperaments. The standard says "aloof" and too many people interpret that to mean, "afraid of strangers". They are NOT the same thing.

They do have a strong intimidation factor because of the size. They have a gigantic bark, a lot like a dane actually.

Strider has a very excellent temperament. While he's never been in a situation where he needed to stop an attacker, we did have a few close calls where I feel like he prevented someone from acting on bad intentions.

Once was a transient camped in a field, who saw me (lone young female) walking down the path. He didn't see Strider because of the tall bushes, and started coming toward me through the brush. As soon he came out onto the path and saw the size of the dog I was walking his eyes got huge and he made an "ohcrap!" face before running away.

Not that he had bad intentions, but once at the doctor's office the doc lifted the back of my shirt to listen with his stethoscope. Strider did NOT like that. He didn't growl or anything. He did jump to his feet with the stiff upright tail and gave the doc the whale eye. He stopped when I told him it was okay. I think if I had screamed or fought the doctor Strider probably would have bitten him.

Shortly before we got Strider his breeder had several drug smugglers try to break into their house. One of their old borzoi females was lying on the porch, and they heard her barking and growling. Next they heard gunshots and more dog noises, and a car driving away. The dog had been shot and stabbed several times, but she wouldn't let them in. She did survive thank goodness.

That kind of nerve is correct in the breed, I just wish it was more common. As far as I'm concerned a good one is worth their weight in gold.

Thank you, will do. I hadn't considered them before.

This worries me a little because I DO want to be able to walk the dog in public areas. So do you mean they can't be around people in close proximity, like will they growl and should I be very worried about having people around? Or is it more of a case of them ignoring strangers?

I like that!

Which is a factor, because I do want to have multiple dogs. I will keep this in mind, thanks.

Ok thanks, that cleared it up for me

Well I have worked with ACDs and own a BC so I am familiar with high energy dogs. The ACD was quite protective, as was my ACD mix foster. Another thing I should add is that I am not interested in a puppy, I would be acquiring an older (1-2 year old) dog from a breeder (if all goes as planned of course!).

I am actually very attracted to these dogs, the only thing I am unsure about is their off-leash reliability. I do like to have dogs I can walk off-leash and I have heard sighthounds are NOT one of these breeds.

tucker & me
a good working heeler (not necessarily an AKC dog) is A LOT of dog. my dad's new wife has one that got his jaw broke & continued to work the horses until they were where they needed to be. they didn't realize his jaw was broke until after when he wouldn't eat. he is also hair triggered and they have to be super careful. OTH they can leave their trucks unlocked w/ the keys in the ignition while they go out to dinner & the truck WILL be there when they come back. he is all working stock off a ranch in TX and would put some of the mals & gsds i've seen in the military to shame.

not to anyone in particular, but working dogmen don't put faith in a dog until it actually does the job & PROVES it can & WILL. it doesn't matter whether it is hunting, PP or herding or any other real work (people & animals lives may depend on it) until a dog proves it, it isn't considered able to do it. sometimes we aren't good at explaining this diplomatically. so if we pee on your head about it, it's not w/ malice.

:rofl1: Evil. I had almost healed the split in my lip, and I just burst out laughing so suddenly it's bleeding again.

they will usually avoid strangers, least as far as ive been told, IF theyve been properly bred, raised ect they shouldnt be "unprovoked agressive"
there not nessicarily going to greet a stranger with a wagging tail...of the owners ive talked to they all say that their dogs are ok with strangers IF they are properly introduced.

most of them however will NEVER go out of their way to interact with strangers on any level.

i know of one woman i talk to in england whos from south africa, she has a boerboel as a service dog hes the perfect brace dog, works perfectly at "keeping the space" as she calls it, he stands behind her in lines so people dont get too close, not once has he offered any unwarented agression, never a growl or a curled lip ect...he does wear a "working do not pet" patch on his vest, but if someone asks and she says its ok he will offer a paw to shake and he LOVES kids...
but hes also a strong desire to avoid a strangers touch when hes on the harness he just ignores them...
but if hes not "working" he will change sides so they cant pet him unless she tells him its ok.

again, these dogs should not be agressive unprovoked...
if that makes sense...

It's tough to find the real deal breeders and trainers, too. Tougher still to begin to understand that proving a dog may go way beyond that of titling and so looking at parents, pedigrees, and titles may be very misleading...

YouTube - 2008 USA Sieger Show Working Males Cat 40-44
Would you rely upon dog #40? He is Schutzhund III titled but is clearly displaying avoidance and stress behaviors. I doubt many folks of ill repute would approach me if this dog was at the other end of my leash but I would not put an ounce of faith in him for protection. And the dog that goes for the helper's leg, hoo boy.... wouldn't want to train him in protection. That could be a liability begging to happen.

I suspect things may be similar in other breeds. Too often, owners do have "kennel blindness" and think their dog will protect through anything. Some will head for the hills on an angry glance and loud yell, some will stand ground but turn tail when the attacker fights the dog, and those amazing some will stick to the fight regardless of what befalls the dog, to the point of sacrificing its own life. The point is, do NOT risk your own life to figure out into which category your dog falls (this is directed not necessarily to the OP but to anyone who may read this).

Good luck in the search! Have you also thought of giant schnauzers or beaucerons?

Beauceron, Information and Pictures, Beaucerons

I read your post, and I'd bet that you are wrong unless you are hanging around with the rarely found Euro dobie, but those lines are not found at dog shows. You insinuated that someone could go out and get a show line dobie and it would be protective, which isn't true.

100% of the dobies I have ever seen will not protect. How's that for a blanket statement?

Ok, perhaps I am overestimating the mal/dutchie then. I have been around AKC ACDs and ACDs from working lines. And I know they pack a hard punch; I have seen it firsthand. Unless the dogs I have met aren't good examples of working line ACDs, then I understand where you are coming from. From the things I have read however, it just sounded like mals/dutchies were a whole different level.

Thank you, that cleared up a lot for me and makes perfect sense

Because the one I personaly know, and hang out with, will, without a doupt protect you. Some of them have proven it, and some, judging by thier temperment will. Not all show dogs are sucks. The ones I personaly know, in my group of show friends actually have decent tempements. I never once said all show dobies, but the ones in my circle of friends will.

Jazz didnt have a proper temperment, but she would have and did protect me from harm. But there is a difference between a pet who would protect if needed, and one who could do Schuzhund (sp?) or IPO. I dont think the OP wants a sport dog, just a family pet.

Thank you! And no, I had not considered Giant Schnauzers. I will be honest, I am not a huge fan of the Schnauzer but I have only met poor examples, so I will give them a chance. I did consider a Beauceron, however I met a woman at a show with one and she said it was incredibly hard to find one that had the correct temperament. She told me that unfortunately, most are quite nervous and spooky. Sub-consciously I never considered them but I suppose if I knew I could find good examples I would look more closely at the breed.

I'm not familiar with dutchies and have read things from all over the spectrum about the breed...but malis? yep. They are a whole different level. Not so much in terms of drive, but because you have to add in the speed. Malis will act before you even know what they're responding to.

I am not particularly interested in doing sports. I have my border collie for that But yes, I am aiming more for a well-rounded dog I could trust around people/kids, but that also would be intimidating to intruders and could (hopefully) show some teeth if he/she felt there was a threat.

I also have read tons of contradictory things on dutchies, which is why I made this thread. I wanted some clarification lol.

Ok, so in terms of speed they are faster then BC/ACD? That would be the main difference?

If you're looking for an adult as a visual deterrent a rescue dog could be screened to have the traits you want and would likely be more easily available than an adult breeder dog. You've narrowed down breeds, so you could easily start talking to rescue about the frequency of dogs entering their program that would meet your needs.

In general, any big, dark dog with good obedience skills and a cue to bark when asked (I've trained "Steady" myself) can do what you're looking for and since you're not necessarily looking to do sports with this dog, you might be better off with a mix of some sort rather than a specific breed, especially when the breeds you listed are pretty high octane in general.

The foster that I've had that seemed to scare people most was a young dark blue ACD - friendly as all get out but had piercing eyes and was very dark so they stood out. My parents' Rottie mix (looks like a rottie with a tail and only 45-50lbs lol) also tends to get a bit more attention. My Maggie, BC/ACD mix, has tricked meter readers into thinking we had a GSD just by her bark (he couldn't see all 33lbs of her at the time lol), and Kes seems to have a similarly loud and low bark.

When people ask about obtaining a dog for visual deterrent I always tell them to look for the right individual vs. a specific breed.

Beaucerons are very hit and miss. I used to work with the lady who has what are considered to be some of the better lines in this country. One of her dogs was formally trained in protection and made for a great visual deterrent, especially when he started growling. But that was as far as he would go when actually pushed, as they found out the hard one way day. The dog was in their van, supposedly on guard, and someone still stole the van with the dog in it. They later recovered both, but her faith in her dog was strongly shaken.