Yep! BB's got it right! I've been pretty successful with Kimma in agility with no toy drive. Jari has also only worked for food thus far and he's doing just fine! I luckily haven't had an instructor tell me that toys are the only way/2x2 method is the only way. And I wouldn't stick with one that believed that! We tried channels and WOMs as well, and 2x2s just stuck with Kimma. One of my instructors likes to shape her weaves. I plan on trying 2x2s first with Jari and if they don't work then I have no problems going to something else