My puppy and my friends child.....

My puppy is an American Bulldog, Stoli, and she is 8 weeks old. I just got her over the weekend. The past couple nights I have brought her over to my friends home for TV night....we have gotten together for a couple years now to watch 24, and American Idiots....er....Idol. Anyway thier daughter, who is 4, goes absolutly balistic over the puppy. My question is....is Stoli to young to be around the 4 year old? The child pokes her, of course we tell her not to but she doesn't listen to her parents very well....and of course she is only 4....she also grabs her paws and manipulates them....puts her feet and hands in her face and taunts her...and basicaly just torments her.....My friend thinks it is good for her so she can get used to it....What do you "PROS" think? Thanks

Well, as for my experience in this area. I have a 3 year old niece who is absolutely in love with my 4 month old Beagle "Bailey".

I have had him a couple of months now, and it has taken several interactions together, and play days in the yard to get Bailey to not attack her pant legs and jump up on her. I have taught Blake (my niece) not to run from him, and the behaviors of hers that result in his undesirable behaviors. I am 100% tuned into their interactions, and never leave my focus on them when together. I am scared he might "play nip" her, which could hurt. So far so good.

In a nutshell, I feel they just need "supervised" play time together and the child needs to be taught what is acceptable and unacceptable behavior with the puppy. Reinforce the fact that the child could get bit and that might hurt. I am not sure how cooperative this child is, but my Niece is such a wonderful child, and we have been fortunate of her good bahavior around Bailey and for this we have many fun weekends in the yard playing which is great for them both.

Good luck with your new puppy!

I think it's good that your puppy is socialized with kids BUT you need to make sure it's not a traumatizing experience... If she really annoys your puppy, you might end up with a puppy that is scared of children. I would supervize closely and if the child really goes too far, I would stop bringing the puppy there. What you're saying sounds ok to me, but if she starts doing things that might hurt the puppy, it won't be good.

Honestly, nothing irks me more than parents who say that it's normal for their children to do such things, that they are young anyway and just let them do it. 4 year olds are young, but they can listen, and it's never too early to learn to respect animals.

On a side note, your pupppy seems to be really good natured if she puts up with it and doesn't try to nip and bite

I'm not necessarily a pro - but here's my opinion:
I think the child shouldn't be doing that. And if she does do it and refuses to listen to her parents then she should have a time out. That's tormenting the puppy, and could cause fear issues, that will be harder to work out when she's older.

No dog, regardless of age or breed should be treated as such. The child needs to learn how to treat dogs with respect so she doesn't run the risk of getting bit in the future. I don't tolerate that sort of behavior from my nephews and neice in regards to my own dog.. .But that, again, is just my opinion.

Ok. This is going to be blunt.

I would not choose to expose my dogs, especially a little baby puppy in the adjustment period, to uncontrollable children who tease it and will not take instruction on how to approach and interact with the dog.

My puppy would stay away from this environment until your friends teach their child some manners.

Thank you all for the quick replies. I am very concerned about this. I spend a lot of time with these friends. I want them to have a good relationship. My other Bully and her got along so well together. I am going to have a more serious talk with them about their childs behavior when Stoli is there with me. How far is to far though?

I'm not sure, I would say anything that seems too much for you.

I wish you good luck, I know that the subject of how to raise children is sometimes a hard one.

I would just teach her that if she acts rough around him they he is going to go away..That should probaly work!

Fran: That's the thing....I feel that just her putting her hands in Stolis face is to much....It would be one thing if it was just her sitting there playing with Stoli...The other night when I told my friends I may not bring the dog back until she gets older seemed kind of upset....I DO NOT want a 75 pound kid chomper though.

RR: I think that is exactly what I am going to say....we will see what happens. Thank you.

To me a kid who does any sort of rough play isn't kosher. I've been in your shoes; my nephews have both hit and kicked my dog "in play" - according to their mother.

I gave up on their mother and the last time it happened I pretty much grabbed the youngest boy, looked him dead in the eye and said "Do not do that to Mojo. That is not allowed. If you want to play with him you must learn how to pet him first."

He attempted to kick my dog again, and I literally picked him up, said a very stern "NO." and walked away with Mojo beside me. That youngest boy is not allowed to pet, touch, play or go anywhere near my dog without close supervision. I have gotten to the point however that I jsut won't take my dog over there to visit.

Their parents attitude is mroe or less - kids will be kids and should be allowed to be kids. But dogs are not allowed to be dogs, and no matter if my dog is provoked to biting then it's the dog's fault not the child's. I won't take that risk with Mojo now.

This is why I think the child is the one who needs to be trained first, before Stoli is trained. Stoli is still rather at the helpless new born stage. Her parents wouldn't let a 4 year old treat a newborn baby like that - why should she be allowed to treat your puppy that way?

But to be more specific - if the child's hands are in your dog's face that is a no-no. If the child is teasing, manipulating or pulling the puppy's tail, legs, ears, or paws that is a no no. If the child will not allow the puppy to sleep when it's trying to sleep that is a no no.

Basically I think you may have to leave your puppy at home when you go to visit their home until Stoli is much older and has been trained better bite inhibition, and is fully vetted, not to mention in training learning her own basic obedience.

No Problem I hope it works!

Thanks again Mojo...that is pretty much the same situation I am going through. I am going to give it one more try....talk with my friends and their girl try RRs suggestion and hopefuly it will work out...if not I wont be bringing Stoli back over there until late March or April.

Good looking dog you have there mojo...does he always have his tounge out? lol Yours too RR....beautiful...looks like a champion!

Just my two cents, but I think it is okay for the child to play with the puppy, supervised.

Absolutely do not let the child do anything that will actually hurt the puppy. I think everyone agrees with that. If the child will not respond to simple commands at all, then that would not be a child I would trust to not hurt the dog. As far as doing things that annoy the puppy, such has handling the puppy's face, I would be a little more tolerant, as discussed below.

Puppies generally have pretty good tolerance for play. As part of the socialization process, it can be very beneficial to handle all parts of a dog when they are young so that they will not be too upset by it when they get older, and have to endure uncomfortable or unusualy treatment by the vet or the groomer. For this reason, I purposely handled my dog's feet (which initially he didn't like at all) and put my hands in his mouth to check his teeth and run my fingers along the gum line. I held his muzzle shut for short periods of time (not forcefully, of course). I have also read places suggesting you should also handle the dog's genitals, but I couldn't bring myself to do that. All of these things are things that he was likely to encounter by the vet and a groomer when he got older.

I would first do all of these things frequently yourself to help socialize the dog and get it used to such handling. I would also closely supervise the child's play. I would say you should instruct the child not to do these things. Hopefully, the child will respond, at least for the most part. If the child does not obey one hundred percent of the time, but is pretty good, I would not get too concerned, assuming your puppy seems to be tolerating the contact okay. You should be able to tell if your puppy is enjoying itself.

All this being said, at eight weeks, your pup may be a bit too young for handling by the child other than letting her pet the pup gently while you hold it. When it gets to be closer to 12 weeks, a little more interaction might be in order.

I'm not a pro, but the situation described doesn't sound sensible. Maybe exposing the puppy to a child is a good idea, but not while the adults are distracted by television.

Agreed.

Ah thank you! Mojo is my dork boy... Usually he's hard to get pictures of, if i bring the camera out in teh apartment he turns his head the other way. I have to do crazy things to get his attention like stick stuffed animals on my head, or sneak up on him, or balance a treat on my camera. If he has his tongue out he's generally in the middle of play.

I dont have nearly as many recent photos of him... but i am thinking of doing a post of my 4 favorite pics of mojo if anyone would be interested in seeing him.

Thank you once again for the compliments!!

PFC1: Thank you for your insight. I am going start doing the handling tonight. My other American Bull and her got along so well I want to do everything possible to ensure that she has the same relationship with Stoli.

Casablanca: Thank you too for your input..I also completely agree..The child is only 4 so she doesn't watch 24 with us....and I don't watch a whole lot of American Idol....And with Stoli being so young I don't take my eyes of her for a second.

Mojo: I would love to see some pics.

If you'd like to see the pics i posted you can look here.

I don't see manipulating the paws and feet as bad, unless she's forcing them in a way that they shouldn't be going. I did that with my dog's paws and I also played with their ears too when they were puppies to get used them used to the vets doing it. Although if she is doing so in a manner that could hurt the puppy's foot or ear than yeah I would definetely not let her do that. I would take matters into your own hands, if the girl gets rough then I would just go and say "you need to be gentle with Stoli, here lets try doing this instead" if it gets worse then remove the puppy from the situation and hold your puppy for a few minutes so the little girl realizes if she is rough with the puppy than it gets taken away. I have to say my stepson is HORRIBLE with dogs he just turned 6 and he hits and pulls on them to the point where I need to have the dogs with me constantly. He's used to little dogs and he doesn't understand that if my dog (who is A LOT bigger than the dog he is used to tormenting) decides to bite it'll be a lot worse than he thinks. I have been saying no if he is mean to her and then redirecting him to an ok activity to do with her (petting, playing fetch, or brushing) and if that doesn't work than the dog goes into another room for a few minutes and me and him discuss what he has done to make the dog go away. You could try doing something like redirecting the girl to a more appropriate activity though first and that may do the trick.

Thanks for your first hand input Julie.....I am not really worried that she is hurting Stoli (well...okay kinda worried...lol)...it's that Stoli is trying to bite her when she is doing it...and that is what worries me....I don't want Stoli to think it's okay to do that. We need to have a serious talk with the child. I guess from what you have said about the problem with your son, who is two years older than this girl I need to take care of this right away so it doesn't continue and turn into a very very bad situation.