Gentle leads.. advice needed.

I also reccomend the prong collar. If it's properly fitted, it's very easy to use and usually works wonders for a puller. However it is possible for some dogs to pull anyway, and in those cases they are pulling through the handler, not the collar. Like any tool, proper use makes all the difference.

Fit the collar high on the neck, behind the ears, make sure it's SNUG (but not too tight) and give about a foot of slack in the lead. Hook your thumb through your belt loop to keep your hand steady. (this also keeps you from correcting, and allows the dog to self-correct. No need to worry about timing)
The most common problem people have with this collar is they allow the dog to get to the end of the lead and then it's all down hill from there, as it's much easier to pull from that position.

You have to leave no more then a foot of slack and STICK TO IT. Do a bunch of random turns and get the dog to pay attention to you in a low distraction enviroment so she knows how the collar works before you test it out on a walk.

If you're conerned about the collar being "harsh" you can always add some rubber tips to the end.

I've used the front clip harnesses and while they work for some mild pullers, I won't to use them because of the danger. It's very easy for a dog to simply back out of one if they're so inclined. Seen it happen. Loose dog. Not fun.

I wouldn't trust one on an over excited dog with a novice owner.

Likewise, if you use a prong, be sure to attach it to back up collar as they have been known to come apart if the links get weak.

Katya is six years young and weighs about 140. She was with me for about a year when my mom got sick and we did try non-correction based training. The prong is rarely used for an actual correction but it is there for backup if need be. We always move to the side when people come and have her look away, that does not require a correction at this time.

Some examples of when it is used for corrections, when a VW Beetle comes by, a motorcycle, a biker, a skateboarder, a rollerblader, anything moving fast. She has gotten much better since she lived with me. We sat outside and watched a skateboarder for a half an hour one day. She rarely aggress these things anymore. When one is approaching we just say leave it and she is pretty consistent with leaving it.

As I said the prong is a backup, on occasion you get one of those people who just has to approach your dog even though you tell them they are aggressive, to pull her away from someone like that you need maxium control which the prong gives.

Been there..done that. When they see cat/squirrel they both take off, hit the end of their leads, jerk violently back, jerking me forward. The prong just works best for us.

The moving trigger is very typical with this breed and there are few dogs, if any that can out power a Caucasian. It sounds like you've made some great progress with her.

I will second the Gentle Leader Harness. They work very well and I have one for Lizzie but I am not using it any more because I want her to be able to walk with just a collar and leash now!!!

But I will give you a different website that had then and you can get ANY size and you can choose from LOTS of colors for the harness!!! Gentle Leader on SitStay!

Which brand are you talking about? I'm not sure we're referring to the same tool. They are not only virtually impossible to back out of but they're attached to the collar so the risk of a loose dog just doesn't exist. They are the perfect tool for a novice dog owner, that's my point. It doesn't get much more foolproof than a front clip harness, (not a head collar), and unlike the prong, there's no learning curve or risk of injury or psyc. issues

I was referring to the Easy Walk harness. Seen a dog back right out of it and take off down the road. Granted it's rare that a dog will get that hyped up and flail around enough to actual back out, but it can happen. I'm not willing to risk it.

It's a decent tool for mild pullers, but I won't use it on hard core pullers.

I'm affraid that it wasn't put on properly, there's a safety attachment to the collar which is not even necessary if the harness is fitted properly. I'm not trying to start an arguement with you at all silver, but this harness is very effective for serious pullers. By serious pullers, I mean 130 lb. Rotts, larger mastiffs...I find it MOST effective for the larger/stronger ingrained pullers.

Anyway, it's really up to the owner.

Well, I honestly wouldn't know if they put it on correctly or not. It wasn't my dog or a dog that I was training. As I said in my post, I've SEEN a dog back out of it.

I'm aware of how they work. I've used them with some success on mild pullers, but I don't feel they work well enough for a large dog that pulls like a fire's been lite behind them.

To each their own, if you're happy with it, by all means use it. I'm not thrilled with the product, although I will admit it has it's place. I just choose not to use them that often.

Edited to add: I also don't feel that it's a very 'clear' tool in terms of telling the dog where exactly he should be. I prefer a little more precision and control on how I communicate to the dog on the other end of the leash.

personally i found mushroom was able to pull quite effectively with a front-clip harness on. he's only 55 pounds but he's very strong. he can pull through a prong collar too if he's really torked up but at least then i have control of the head/neck.

I had a similar question here last week, and with the help of some very nice board members who helped me out privately, I decided to use a prong collar with Tosca. What I am doing, thanks to loving advice is, I am puting both the prong collar and her regular collar on her so that I can use the prong collar if I feel I need to with her. She is easily distracted by other animals and kids. I also used it in her class last night and it was magical in my case. I hardly had to correct her at all. If you decide to use one, please have someone who knows about training show you how to use it correctly. I had our trainer fit her and instruct me last week when we "tried one out". For me at this time, it is very helpful, but I am hoping it won't be needed for long.

Thanks you two. You know who you are.