Specific breed or type sports and titling

So far, no, I haven't run into any problems. But I was disappointed to learn that Gwen can't run with other dogs. To me, that's kind of the point... Getting her to be interested in the lure and actively chase it is one thing, and I'm glad she enjoyed that. But it would be nice to see how she does with other dogs involved. Sael and Sizzle can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Gwen is deceptively fast. I think I heard someone call her a 'fox'. :rofl1:

I'm not like 'OMG HOW UNFAIR' about it, but I can't say I understand the reasoning behind it. Apart from the sighthounds being faster and all around 'better' at it... But, again, that's a personal thing. If I don't mind running my dog against a Whippet, why is it a big deal? A dog park is more much likely to have bad consequences than a coursing run or two.

I refused to run my mal against a dog I didn't know would follow the lure instead of crash into my dog. I also don't do dog parks, though.

Thanks guys, our tangent is interesting.

Considering the ABCA rules state that any dog that has been titled a show champion cannot be registered with the ABCA, it makes sense. The rules are there. The leaders of the group should follow them (like they did) or change them. I'm pretty sure your friend could still trial USBCHA if they wanted. Just FYI.

She did still trial with USBCHA with him, but one thing she ran into is that ABCA sponsors most of the awards at trials, and they won't allow any show champion to receive any awards. Seems pretty ridiculous to me...

ABCA supposedly will register Show Champions on merit, but although 7 dogs have tried for it, not one has gotten it, and of those 7 I know 4 of them failed simply because of the voting of the board members.

ISDS on the other hand has a much better system- they will register dogs on merit regardless of their breeding or titles, if they can win an open-level ISDS trial or go through a pretty difficult test. In fact, that is how Riot's half sister and her great-great grandmother were ISDS registered, despite them having show titles.

Sorry for the slightly off topic post Adrianne

I've only been to one coursing event and it was just a fun run, but put me down in the 'wouldn't run my dog with other dogs' group. Pig is small and oblivious to most dangers,she's been trampled by Bear a few times in situations where she could see him coming. Even if the other dog never redirected onto her, having her run with another super amped dog with tunnel vision seems like a recipe for disaster.

I do wish she could do earthdog stuff. I know absolutely nothing about it other than what I've seen on tv years ago. It just looks fun and I like fun.

Well, I'd argue that to receive a full coursing title, a dog MUST run with other dogs. The sighthounds do after a solo test, to help see that they will follow the bag. Some still follow the other dogs instead and lose points or get DQed.

Right now no one is letting other breeds do a test then run as a group, so the test is fundamentally different than the sighthound test even if the course is identical.

Of course, plenty of eligible breeds never coursed a hare so why not open it up. You could run shepherd type groups and retriever groups and so on depending on who showed up.

Good points.

The only reason I wish Lucy could run with the sighthounds is so we'd have more opportunities to play. The closest CAT tests are almost 4 hours away--not worth it for a 1 minute loop. The few times we've played, Lucy has had a BLAST and run like a speed demon, but we don't get to do it very often.

I would not trust her to run with other dogs. I know she would not do anything to them, but it would become a game of chase to her, and she would likely distract the other dogs.

Has anyone set up a coursing course on their own? Since we're mainly on lure coursing now. I don't desire to title in another venue, but from a conditioning standpoint...

I have not, but I'd LOVE to be able to find a cheap enough one to set up a small course somewhere.

Have you asked any of the local clubs if they'd mind letting her do a couple of rounds after their practices are over? A lot of times they don't mind. Especially if you offer a couple of bucks to cover fuel. They might know of fun runs in the area too, since you just want to do it for recreation.

Yes, it's racing.. uh, probably LGRA, I don't actually know what it is. I just shared it because it's a good view of how intense the dogs are when coursing, though, with the crashing into each other and skidding around. Dogs won't typically run that hard if they're just frolicking around in a field.

And the question would be, do you want your little Sheltie (for instance) to be out there when this comes down the line? Because this dog ain't swerving:



This is why my own safety concerns are more directed towards not wanting my dog attacked while she's running, but the very real risk of dogs crashing into each other needs to be considered. If light bodied dogs like sighthounds can accidentally kill each other in a collision, what happens when you start putting some more solid dogs out there?

Honestly I don't see why dogs cant title in everything. I also don't think they should change any rules or regulations. If the dog cant physically do it (say retrieving and the size of the "bird") then too bad. I can see putting sight hounds and non sight hounds into different groups for the safety thing of the dogs running into each other.

My dobe Jazz would have done well at retriever trials. We played around with it a bit and she loved it. Same with herding. Honestly with some people (some not all and I know people like this) they don't want the extra competition. They might loose :yikes:

Can Rotties and GSD's compete in AKC or CKC herding events?

Would getting extra entry fees from off breeds not benefit the clubs?

I'm not sure about Rotties but GSDs are in the Herding group and are "Shepherds"... so nothing unusual about them herding.

I'm not sure about running all breeds together in coursing. Some breeds aren't...ummm...very dog friendly by nature. The sighthounds have to prove they can run with another dog before entering classes to do so. But I really think you'd be more likely to have issues in some of the non-sighthounds.

There would be a way to make it competitive without running dogs together though, They could score each dogs and place them accordingly. Honestly though, it doesn't matter to me. My dogs love to do coursing but it ultimately is a title for chasing a plastic bag. I'm not going to get all bent out of shape that my dogs can't be more competitive in it, I'm just glad there is now an option for them to do it. I have wished for all-breed lure coursing since I was very first introduced to coursing

A local UKC club near me has regular fun runs in coursing - their set up seems fairly simple. The motor is powered by a car battery.

I'm still annoyed about not letting my Malinois trial in field trials but deep down I blame Shai. This conversation has restarted my annoyance and the goal was actually to rationalize the reasoning for not being allowed to trial. lol

As for lure, I really find lure less than thrilling so I can see myself caring a lot less, I'll be interested to see if AKC is any more fun. However, I positively wouldn't run all breeds together. For starters if I want a time on my dog in a race I wouldn't race it against a slower dog and second I innately trust certain breeds less to not be ruthless, redirecting, and lacking of quick twitch muscles to match a sighthounds maneuvers.

HGH or tending style herding looks vastly different than AKC type herding though.

I love you too

Gonna go enter me a hunt test just for you *ebil grin*

The only revenge I can see fitting is getting a Mira puppy. Le Sigh.

For what it's worth, however, hunt test are extremely resource-intensive to put on. In addition to finding and reserving and probably renting vast tracts of suitable land, the small size of many host clubs combined with the huge amount of manpower required means workers need to be hired for many tests. Birds, wingers (and backups), vehicles, guns & appropriate ammo, permits, etc. in addition to normal all-venue costs like bringing in judges from the far corners of the earth, etc. For tests with live fliers, they need birds for every single dog entered...no reuse.

There are reasons that entry fees are $65-100/entry. Even then it's tough for a lot of the clubs, despite big entries. They are already full-day and multi-day events (a single Master test usually takes 2 full days to run). The small groups of diehards who put these on have many motivations, but at the heart of it is preserving traditional natural instinct in gundogs. Considering the current breed system disallows bringing in outside bloodlines by merit, expecting them to take on additional effort and expense for dog who cannot contribute to the genetic perpetuation of gundogs as a type would likely be a problem.

In addition, a line should be drawn between hunt tests and field trials. Hunt tests are to test the dogs' instincts against a standard, primarily to evaluate potential breeding stock and verify natural ability, at least at the lower levels. Field trials are judging relative to competitors, with dogs downselected at each stage of the test until only a few top dogs remain at the end. I would personally be somewhat more open to allowing all breeds in the field trials vs. the hunt tests simply because FTs are already so artificial and it would just mean a harsher downselection. And it's already mostly FT-bred Labs whose suitability as a natural family 'triever can already be called into serious question...

I'd have to think on it some more, but just to give a little background.