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krisykris

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#1
..probably repetitive but I need some training help.

I have a few different issues....

Bentley will only sit/down when I have a treat or toy.. otherwise he just looks at me and doesn't do the command.

Lula --

When I put her in the X Pen to take Bentley out to potty she will scream and bite the Xpen and pull it in towards her. My question is, should I completely ignore this behavior or should I say "no" in a firm voice? With Emma and Bentley they didn't do this, so it's all new to me.

Also, when she's being too rough with the other dogs.. how can I get her to stop? Should I just distract and not say no?
 

Doberluv

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#2
My question is, should I completely ignore this behavior or should I say "no" in a firm voice?
Ignore it completely.


Also, when she's being too rough with the other dogs.. how can I get her to stop? Should I just distract and not say no?
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Can you describe what happens when she plays too rough? What do the other dogs do? Are they miserable, bleeding or are they having fun playing rough too?

Bentley will only sit/down when I have a treat or toy.. otherwise he just looks at me and doesn't do the command.
What are you doing to try to get him into the sit or down position? What have you been doing with the treats?

Don't have treats in your hand. Keep some in your pocket or on the counter or table or different places but you must reward within 3 seconds of the dog doing the behavior. Have you tried luring with your hand where you hold your hand over his head and back a little? He doesn't know what the word means yet quite possibly.

Have you read anything about clicker training? I recommend it. You can also capture the behavior.....when he happens to sit on his own or down, you make a fuss and give a treat. Make it so those positions (sit/down) are really fun to do and that they're associated with fun, games, treats. Don't worry about using an English word at first. Just get the behavior either by capturing it or eliciting it by luring.

Reinforce every time with a treat for now until he's regular. Show him that you don't have to have a treat in your hand in order for him to get it. He'll soon get onto it. Once he starts sitting regularily when you lure, then add the cue word, "sit." When he sits reliably for you, start skipping a time or two of getting a treat after wards. But don't entirely phase out the reward. Skip one, then 2, then 5, then 3, then 6. In other words, keep him trying. Remember that cues/commands do not drive behavior. Reinforcement drives behavior. Dogs need a paycheck for their work. They don't need one everytime, once the behavior is learned, but if the never get something they love, the behavior will regress.

Did you see this link? Super helpful. http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/index.htm
 

krisykris

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#3
Dober.. They play rough... tail pulling ear biting, ect. No one ever yips or bleeds, but sometimes I wonder if it's okay.

Bentley reliably knows his sit and down, but if i don't have a treat or toy he just stares at me even though my hand is in the position I always use. If I go get a treat, he'll do it perfectly.
 

Doberluv

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#4
If they're both having fun and no one is getting hurt when they play roughly, I wouldn't worry about it.

He doesn't really reliably know sit or down because he's not able to do it as a single behavior. It's all connected with whether or not you have a treat. People often make the mistake of doing things the same way every time. As an example, standing right in front of the dog, facing him with one hand on their waist every time they ask for a sit. Then when they ask for a sit and they're not standing right in front of their dog, he doesn't sit. They think he's being stubborn. But the fact is that dogs don't generalize worth beans. And this standing in front of the dog has become a part of the cue. "I sit because when she stands like that with one hand on her waist, I get reinforced." So then when the person stands sideways and a little distance off without their hand on their waist, the dog is confused.

They are so intuned with our body language that they notice tiny little things, even if our mouth is open or closed. So, it's important to vary your position to the dog, vary locations, mix things up, take a treat from a pocket one time, from the counter another time etc. Unless it is singled out from all these other variables and the dog reliably sits no matter what the circumstance, he does not really know sit.

What I would do then, with the sitting and down is to try capturing the behavior. Read about clicker training a little bit and prime him to the clicker. Or you can prime him to a word. But I really like the clicker because it's so distinctive sounding. Teach him what it means that click = treat every time. When he just happens to sit on his own, have that thing handy and click/treat. Or use a word you don't use for anything else. Just keep doing it.

He has learned that by your having the treat in your hand, that that is part of the cue.

Since capturing behavior depends on his choosing when to sit or just happening to sit, it may take a little longer. You can, in addition try something else. If he sits when you have a treat in your hand, let him see it but close your fist around it and motion for him to sit. Hold your hand to your side. He'll be looking at it, waiting for the treat. Have a treat in your other hand too and behind your back. Bring that one around to give him the treat. Do that a few times. Then try some out of your pocket, never giving him the one in the hand you're luring with. Then eliminate that treat and try. Lure into the sit and bring a treat from a different place. Vary the place. Get him use to the fact that he will not know where the treat is coming from. A clicker is useful with this. It lets him know what he just did....that very second which was what earned him the treat...which may take about 3 seconds to get. Try to eliminate the lure as soon as you can. You can make it more subtle and into a hand signal. Down the road, try using the hand signal by itself without the verbal and visa versa. Mix it up.

Then once he's reliable, skip a time of reward. But don't be in a rush to eliminate the treats. Keep reinforcing the sit. Practice the one position for a bit then try a different distance from you...just a few steps back. Don't change things in a huge way at first. Then turn to the side a little....a different room, use a slightly different body position. Squat down and ask for a sit. I'd get the sit up and running before bothering with the down. Once he gets onto the idea that treats come from different places and they don't necessarily come every single time (that's only when the behavoir is very well learned) he will probably be able to learn the down better and everything that follows. He'll learn better how to learn. Let us know if you have problems still. Give it time, have patience. He's still guessing what you mean. Once he gets enough reinforcers for enough reps, he'll start repeating that behavior. Keep your criteria low and easy for him at first...he doesn't have to sit for long. Gradually let him sit a tad longer before he gets a treat. Set him up so he's not apt to mess up. Make it easy for him at first. Short fun sessions. End on a good note with something he's good at. If he does pretty well, don't push your luck. End with some happy praise, a treat and some game. He'll be so much more into learning if he has fun. Good luck.
 
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