Do you think some breeds shouldn't be bred?

I'm on the fence.

On one side, it would be nice to have all breeds that can breed/whelp naturally, who you don't have to be concerned with the heat etc.

Then again. Dogs have been bred to our standards for hundreds of years. People bred them to look a certain way because they like it. If all dogs were bred willy-nilly they would be generic brown dogs with prick ears. People have shaped and molded all of these different breeds. I chose a breed that suits my needs/wants. I chose a breed that has natural ears and tails, a coat length I like, an energy level I like and temperament I like.

People *like* bulldogs, just the way they are. It's hard for some to see that. As long as they are being cared for, and provided with c-sections and kept cool in the summer what's the problem? People wouldn't have made them that way if they didn't mind caring for them.

What about your toy breeds w/ hypoglycemia? To me that would be a burden. I can't go to work without worrying that my puppy will fall out from not eating? Should people be breeding dogs that small? It's not up to me. I don't own a toy breed. I chose a breed that doesn't have that problem.

Just do the best for your respective breed, but don't try to tell other people what to do with theirs. The AR people are tring to fix all that for us anyway.

Just clarifying this. It's not an issue at all with most toy dogs. Only the really tiny (talking 3 lbs and under here) dogs are at risk for hypoglycemia. A 'normal' toy breed isn't at much of a risk at all. Reputable breeders don't send home tiny puppies.

This is mainly an issue with 'teacup' breeders.

Lol agreed. I would never try and force someone to breed their breed a certain way.

But as far as my opinion goes, I think breeders should start putting factors like "can breathe comfortably" and "birth naturally" into their selection criteria. To make it more challenging to get the perfect specimen, if nothing else.

I agree with this. I like English bulldogs.. and Ive met dogs that CERTAINLY are not suffering. Yes, they do require extra care in the heat.. but as long as people are willing to do that. then why not?

I WANT!

Sorta off topic...but what do you mean redevelop the breed? The Valley Bull is a breed that has been around for the past 60 years or even more (depending on which source you use). They were developed here in Nova Scotia and are fairly rare elsewear however they are not a breed that I was aware had to be redeveloped. Sure, not a recognized breed and a cross of an EB and a boxer, but the true breeders are using lines that 15 to 20 generations old, maybe more.

I don't know a bunch of details, but she brought quite a few of established Valleys from nova scotia a while back (she's down to only a few dogs of her own, i think she has 3, because of something personal happening causing her to be unable to keep all of them). I think it's something like making the breed better established especially out west? I'm not 100% sure, it might be because of them being such a rare breed? I don't get into it with her too much because i'm not a breeder by any means, she started out breeding boxers but got out of them to get into Valleys. Most of the time she talks things that are over my head lol.

As a dog lover can I not be concerned with the health and welfare of dogs in general, or am I restricted to only caring what happens to 'my breeds'?

I am sure people like them they way they are. People also like byb doodly things too. People like making money off of milling dogs, there are lots of things people like. Liking something doesn't make it right.

No not all bull dogs are suffering, most well bred ones are fine. But think of where they were 100 years ago, and where they are now... its the trend that I find most disturbing.

I think EBs should be bred a bit more like they were, an athletic dog, like you see looking at old pictures and paintings of the breed. I know that would not make people who show/breed EBs now very happy, but that's my opinion.
Pretty much what Xanda said:
I meant more like "bred them as they are" with my question, not "should we wipe them off the earth."

I think as long as the breed clubs/wardens continue to put up dogs as champions that have birth defects and other genetic health issues, nothing will change. The breed clubs are what got these dogs into a bad state and they are the only ones who will get them out of it.

I'll have to show you a pic of my group one day....this is som'thing I'd be all for LOL





personally, I'd like to see the EB in its current form go away.

Oh, as for the swimming thing, I thought it was only, umm, shape-challenged dogs like EBs and maybe bassets that couldn't swim, so I was thinking it had to do with a very certain type of structure. Obviously that comment was made in ignorance so I take it back.
Sorry if I offended anyone.

As far as I know bassets can't swim. I think the reason is that they are too muscular/dense. Murphy (who is halfa basset) can swim like a crazy dog but he HATES it. His eyes bug out and he swims in a straight line only. I don't think it's really a bad thing that a dog couldn't swim but it's definitely something to be aware of with your dog. I had no idea bassets couldn't swim till I got Murph and started researching the breed.

You didnt I was just like ummmm Virginia WTF does it matter? LOL.

mental note- Harper is "shape challenged" LOL!!!!!!

Yeah, I get that, Breeze. LOL. Sowwy!


Harper is friggin adorable. Last I heard corgis are pretty darn athletic dogs despite their short legs. Their legs also have a working purpose.

So did the bulldog's nose in bull baiting, but then everything about them was just bred over exaggerated as I see it, for cosmetics, taking the dog's health as an expense.

in that case you don't need the EB at all for several reasons
1. the american bulldog-just as much of the original british bulldog in it's background as the EB
2. the amstaff-the breeders have bred away about 80-90% of the terrier traits so that it almost is the original british bulldog
3.at least 10 "breeds" of recreated bulldog-using EB as one of the base breeds many people have developed dogs across the whole health spectrum ranging from just as crappy as the EB to just as athletic & healthy as a well bred AB or Amstaff
4. bandogs- within the working true bandog community much of what is produced is structurally & functionally identical to some of the original british bulldogs

Dekka
the EB was already in horrible shape 100 years ago, you need to keep going back further at least another 50 years to find good healthy functional EBs.

Whisper
the smashed in pug nose was NEVER an attribute of a working bulldog. all the stories about breathing while caught on a bull are **** lies initiated & perpetuated by a show community ignorant of the job & the physical requirements needed to do the job. the ideal bite for a holding dog is scissor or reverse scissor. a dog w/drive can compensate for up to MAYBE 1/2" of undershot or overshot, and so that is acceptable. more undershot & the grip simply gets weaker regardless of drive. even bites are not desirable because they tend to shear through the ear or cheek of a hog or range bull.

Thanks for your posts pops! I thought the bulldog's nose was supposed to be slightly pointed up/smooshed in order to be able to breathe while hanging off the bull. You learn something new every day!

I agree that the english bulldog should go back.

In the new sherlock holmes movie they had a EB in the story , I know they can't find a EB like the ones of the time the story is set.

But I can't image that breeding today's EB could have be possible in Holmes time.

In my opinion they should have used another breed insted.

how about some more. the proper place for a bulldog to catch is the ear, nose or cheek (but crossbreds & bull/mastiff breeds not developed for catching will grab the backside of legs also). when a dog is caught there is plenty of room to breathe. now as for other things about a catch dog, the short heavily muscled neck helps resist neck injuries & augments the wide muscled chest & heavy shoulder muscles that allow the dog to control the animal. the cat feet give more agility in fighting by aiding in quick lateral movement.
some features are questionable a little loose skin MAY be an aid in fighting other predators but is probably insignificant and may hide some injuries. a lot of loose skin is an impediment to performance & overall health (think neo, dosa & modern shar pei). cropping ears & docking tails are of no value for working cattle or similar animals but reduce the opportunity for other biting animals to get a hold on the dog. this also reduces the chances of injury related infections to those areas. but the value of these practices in this sense is debatable. this applies primarily to bull & mastiff breeds but is pretty much on for curs and other similar types. this specifically doesn't apply to terriers as i don't have enough experience to comment on them.