Dealing with Bamm and kids
- Thread starter skittledoo
- Start date
So much this. Thank you Airn!
I've been following the thread, but really don't have anything helpful/insightful to add... because I am also the exception to the rule, but that doesn't mean I'm RIGHT or what I care about more matters more or will reflect on the OP!
I don't care enough to have kids, so if I had a dog that I loved that didn't get along with kids, I wouldn't have them.
But, a lot of people WANT kids, and a human's safety always comes before a dog's safety. We were put on the planet to reproduce, it's an instinct that some people have... so telling someone that their property is more important than doing what they were put here to do is a little... well, idiotic.
I've been following the thread, but really don't have anything helpful/insightful to add... because I am also the exception to the rule, but that doesn't mean I'm RIGHT or what I care about more matters more or will reflect on the OP!
I don't care enough to have kids, so if I had a dog that I loved that didn't get along with kids, I wouldn't have them.
But, a lot of people WANT kids, and a human's safety always comes before a dog's safety. We were put on the planet to reproduce, it's an instinct that some people have... so telling someone that their property is more important than doing what they were put here to do is a little... well, idiotic.
That's because you're a hateful and cruel person. Dogs are glorious in that they take nastiness and keep loving. People are more rational. You have created this hell you live in, you do not understand why people enjoy the give and take of society nor why they choose most of their family planning choices, you're not going to have a valid opinion on the topic.
Just like in a thread asking advice about a job interview where you turned it about your yet another negative experience this is not about you.
Just like in a thread asking advice about a job interview where you turned it about your yet another negative experience this is not about you.
Yes, since I chimed in, this would be my best advice...
I would not euth before the baby comes... I would do my best to work this through as much as possible asap, see what happens safely when the baby comes. If he can't relax in the house, near you with the child, etc. then I would euth. You will know your dog best and know if he's comfortable with the arrangement or not. You may even be able to have them co-exist for a year or so to have more time with him, before the baby starts walking which is when I would expect him to be most defensive/reactive about it. Recon doesn't like kids (but is fearful, not the lunging type) but has lived with a baby and interacted with said baby just fine with none of the fear/skiddish-ness associated with the walkers.
I would not euth before the baby comes... I would do my best to work this through as much as possible asap, see what happens safely when the baby comes. If he can't relax in the house, near you with the child, etc. then I would euth. You will know your dog best and know if he's comfortable with the arrangement or not. You may even be able to have them co-exist for a year or so to have more time with him, before the baby starts walking which is when I would expect him to be most defensive/reactive about it. Recon doesn't like kids (but is fearful, not the lunging type) but has lived with a baby and interacted with said baby just fine with none of the fear/skiddish-ness associated with the walkers.
I would like to re-iterate just..this.
I had to be on this side.. I really do. But the stress of a new baby (overtired, overworked, busy, stressed) is hard even with a regular happy dog who is OK with children.. the work needed to make a dog like Bamm even acceptably safe around children.. it's not something I would personally put on myself on top of raising a baby. Especially with 2 other dogs to also worry about.
There is work you could do, there are dogs I know who are AROUND kids who weren't once the best with kids, and there are dogs who like THEIR children (but none others)..
but it's not a risk I am personally comfortable with. It's not something I would like to always be on alert about. It's the whole lifestyle of the crate and rotate, of being separate, of having to keep and ever watchful eye, of putting on the muzzle, of making sure the baby doesn't do x y z and watching those SUBTLE signs from a dog to make sure things are safe. With a new baby...it's just not an extra stressor I would be able to do. I can't watch for tiny subtle changes in behavior whilst also dealing with a new baby and 2 other dogs...I would be so scared of me missing something and someone getting hurt that I'd end up with a dog in a crate 20 hours a day. That's the truth honestly, I know how I am and that...is not acceptable.
no matter what you are looking at a few DEFINITE factors when said baby arrives
- Your dogs will have less exercise/stimulation than usual (you are busy, you can't move around too much, you are very very tired)
- Your dogs will be separated from you a lot more, likely crated (you are with the baby and can't always have them around or be watching them with a baby in your arms)
- Your dogs will likely be stressed by all the strange smells, sounds and coming from said baby. Plus all the extra people around coming to visit baby.
- You will be tired and stressed (of course affecting them)
All of this, even on "regular" dogs, I've seen lead to some troublesome behavior..with a dog like Bamm
I fear the worst.
I'm a dog walker and I walk a lot of dogs whose families just had babies. Some took to it well once they got used to things, some with borderline anxiety issues are now nervous wrecks.
You also have to deal with the reality of.. the child will change. Getting him used to a newborn isn't getting him used to a toddler.
and your child will have FRIENDS, who will likely want to be around or in the home. Are you ok with having a home with JUST your child? I know it may seem petty but child social politics is just one of those things.. having kids usually means having a lot of kids that aren't in your home AROUND.
I like to think I'm superwoman and that whatever life throws at me I could handle it.
The reality is I am very much human..and I wouldn't want to be adding all that stress of an anxious potentially dangerous dog to raising a child.
More than that, I wouldn't want to be making these kinds of decisions while the baby was around. Putting a dog to sleep is a HORRIBLY PAINFULLY difficult choice... and I hate to say this but I wouldn't want to make that decision while the baby was around or even whilst late pregnancy. I would be stressed enough without that added layer of sadness and pain. I'm usually a "cross the bridge when you come to it" person or "see how he reacts to the actual baby"... but the very idea of dealing with that kind of decision WHILST raising a new born like a dark cloud hanging over this potentially wonderous beautiful start of a new family.. it isn't what I would want.
So I don't think it's odd that you made this thread now because really, it is something that need be thought of now, before anything.
Just my 2 cents as always.
I had to be on this side.. I really do. But the stress of a new baby (overtired, overworked, busy, stressed) is hard even with a regular happy dog who is OK with children.. the work needed to make a dog like Bamm even acceptably safe around children.. it's not something I would personally put on myself on top of raising a baby. Especially with 2 other dogs to also worry about.
There is work you could do, there are dogs I know who are AROUND kids who weren't once the best with kids, and there are dogs who like THEIR children (but none others)..
but it's not a risk I am personally comfortable with. It's not something I would like to always be on alert about. It's the whole lifestyle of the crate and rotate, of being separate, of having to keep and ever watchful eye, of putting on the muzzle, of making sure the baby doesn't do x y z and watching those SUBTLE signs from a dog to make sure things are safe. With a new baby...it's just not an extra stressor I would be able to do. I can't watch for tiny subtle changes in behavior whilst also dealing with a new baby and 2 other dogs...I would be so scared of me missing something and someone getting hurt that I'd end up with a dog in a crate 20 hours a day. That's the truth honestly, I know how I am and that...is not acceptable.
no matter what you are looking at a few DEFINITE factors when said baby arrives
- Your dogs will have less exercise/stimulation than usual (you are busy, you can't move around too much, you are very very tired)
- Your dogs will be separated from you a lot more, likely crated (you are with the baby and can't always have them around or be watching them with a baby in your arms)
- Your dogs will likely be stressed by all the strange smells, sounds and coming from said baby. Plus all the extra people around coming to visit baby.
- You will be tired and stressed (of course affecting them)
All of this, even on "regular" dogs, I've seen lead to some troublesome behavior..with a dog like Bamm
I fear the worst. I'm a dog walker and I walk a lot of dogs whose families just had babies. Some took to it well once they got used to things, some with borderline anxiety issues are now nervous wrecks.
You also have to deal with the reality of.. the child will change. Getting him used to a newborn isn't getting him used to a toddler.
and your child will have FRIENDS, who will likely want to be around or in the home. Are you ok with having a home with JUST your child? I know it may seem petty but child social politics is just one of those things.. having kids usually means having a lot of kids that aren't in your home AROUND.
I like to think I'm superwoman and that whatever life throws at me I could handle it.
The reality is I am very much human..and I wouldn't want to be adding all that stress of an anxious potentially dangerous dog to raising a child.
More than that, I wouldn't want to be making these kinds of decisions while the baby was around. Putting a dog to sleep is a HORRIBLY PAINFULLY difficult choice... and I hate to say this but I wouldn't want to make that decision while the baby was around or even whilst late pregnancy. I would be stressed enough without that added layer of sadness and pain. I'm usually a "cross the bridge when you come to it" person or "see how he reacts to the actual baby"... but the very idea of dealing with that kind of decision WHILST raising a new born like a dark cloud hanging over this potentially wonderous beautiful start of a new family.. it isn't what I would want.
So I don't think it's odd that you made this thread now because really, it is something that need be thought of now, before anything.
Just my 2 cents as always.
My child will come before my dogs. Every. Time. If you want a baby, I don't think it would be unreasonable to maybe rehome Bamm (in a suitable home aware of the issues) and pursue that. Dogs can be rehomed successfully and happily.. Whereas having kids is once in a lifetime and an opportunity you may be sad you passed up.
Everything that Fran said x1000.
Kids are loud and do unexpected, unprecedented things ALL THE TIME. Even when they're old enough to understand rules they won't always follow them, they don't always think things through, sometimes they get just crazy crazy ideas.
When I was a kid I'd have friends over dawn till dusk all the time, and often have overnight guests. As a parent, you can't expect to watch them 24/7 and even if you try, you'll slip up now and again. Even if Bamm improves with a behaviourist, will he ever have the bite inhibition it takes to be safe around kids? I doubt it.
I don't trust myself enough for that kind of situation. Especially when the kid is young, the stakes are just too high. I wouldn't want my kid knowing that I compromised their safety and wellbeing so I wouldn't have say goodbye to my dog... I hope that doesn't sound judgmental, but that's how I would personally feel were I in your incredibly tough, heartbreaking position.
Kids are loud and do unexpected, unprecedented things ALL THE TIME. Even when they're old enough to understand rules they won't always follow them, they don't always think things through, sometimes they get just crazy crazy ideas.
When I was a kid I'd have friends over dawn till dusk all the time, and often have overnight guests. As a parent, you can't expect to watch them 24/7 and even if you try, you'll slip up now and again. Even if Bamm improves with a behaviourist, will he ever have the bite inhibition it takes to be safe around kids? I doubt it.
I don't trust myself enough for that kind of situation. Especially when the kid is young, the stakes are just too high. I wouldn't want my kid knowing that I compromised their safety and wellbeing so I wouldn't have say goodbye to my dog... I hope that doesn't sound judgmental, but that's how I would personally feel were I in your incredibly tough, heartbreaking position.
I love how, with the exception of one persons posts, this entire thread has been civil and constructive despite the fact that we all have very strong conflicting opinions. You guys rock. Amber deserves for this thread to be like that, but I am still impressed by the love and support no matter what she decides.
I kind of admire the fact that when an entire forum consistently tells you that your idiotic, hateful opinion isn't welcome you are confident that the problem isn't you. I wish I had that kind of self assurance.
When everyone - even the super nice chazzers, of which I am not - tells you to keep your goddamned opinion to yourself rather than seek out threads about topics you hate and repeat over and over again how much you hate them, the problem is you.
As soon as I get to a computer I'm going to post a poll and we can vote you off the island.
Dennis may have beat me to it, but I'm proposing marriage to you.
Amber.. Call me? It's the 5533 number. I'd like to talk to you. Not about the josh stuff, just the rest. ((((HUGS)))) Thank you for not hating me for voicing my opinion.
I kind of admire the fact that when an entire forum consistently tells you that your idiotic, hateful opinion isn't welcome you are confident that the problem isn't you. I wish I had that kind of self assurance.
When everyone - even the super nice chazzers, of which I am not - tells you to keep your goddamned opinion to yourself rather than seek out threads about topics you hate and repeat over and over again how much you hate them, the problem is you.
As soon as I get to a computer I'm going to post a poll and we can vote you off the island.
Dennis may have beat me to it, but I'm proposing marriage to you.
Amber.. Call me? It's the 5533 number. I'd like to talk to you. Not about the josh stuff, just the rest. ((((HUGS)))) Thank you for not hating me for voicing my opinion.
I wish I had time to quote everyone and respond but alas I'm seriously tired and have to get up ridiculously early tomorrow for dock diving and lure coursing.
I do want to quote this though...
Fran, you make some seriously good points. thanks... seriously, thanks.
Bamm is having a rough night tonight. He's been lying on my bed for nearly an hour and I glanced up at him a little bit ago and he was stress panting badly.... nothing is going on though that usually triggers this kind of reaction in him. We've just been lying in bed relaxing and I'm not sure what he is stressing about right now. Every time I shift in bed he jumps like he is about to bolt at any second. Nolu and I talked on the phone for a bit and she mentioned the possibility of a brain tumor as well. Could a brain tumor affect a dog like this? I just gave him a happy traveler http://www.arknaturals.com/happy-traveler?productId=112 so hopefully that helps him relax so he can go to sleep.
I do want to quote this though...
I would like to re-iterate just..this.
I had to be on this side.. I really do. But the stress of a new baby (overtired, overworked, busy, stressed) is hard even with a regular happy dog who is OK with children.. the work needed to make a dog like Bamm even acceptably safe around children.. it's not something I would personally put on myself on top of raising a baby. Especially with 2 other dogs to also worry about.
There is work you could do, there are dogs I know who are AROUND kids who weren't once the best with kids, and there are dogs who like THEIR children (but none others)..
but it's not a risk I am personally comfortable with. It's not something I would like to always be on alert about. It's the whole lifestyle of the crate and rotate, of being separate, of having to keep and ever watchful eye, of putting on the muzzle, of making sure the baby doesn't do x y z and watching those SUBTLE signs from a dog to make sure things are safe. With a new baby...it's just not an extra stressor I would be able to do. I can't watch for tiny subtle changes in behavior whilst also dealing with a new baby and 2 other dogs...I would be so scared of me missing something and someone getting hurt that I'd end up with a dog in a crate 20 hours a day. That's the truth honestly, I know how I am and that...is not acceptable.
no matter what you are looking at a few DEFINITE factors when said baby arrives
- Your dogs will have less exercise/stimulation than usual (you are busy, you can't move around too much, you are very very tired)
- Your dogs will be separated from you a lot more, likely crated (you are with the baby and can't always have them around or be watching them with a baby in your arms)
- Your dogs will likely be stressed by all the strange smells, sounds and coming from said baby. Plus all the extra people around coming to visit baby.
- You will be tired and stressed (of course affecting them)
All of this, even on "regular" dogs, I've seen lead to some troublesome behavior..with a dog like Bamm I fear the worst.
I'm a dog walker and I walk a lot of dogs whose families just had babies. Some took to it well once they got used to things, some with borderline anxiety issues are now nervous wrecks.
You also have to deal with the reality of.. the child will change. Getting him used to a newborn isn't getting him used to a toddler.
and your child will have FRIENDS, who will likely want to be around or in the home. Are you ok with having a home with JUST your child? I know it may seem petty but child social politics is just one of those things.. having kids usually means having a lot of kids that aren't in your home AROUND.
I like to think I'm superwoman and that whatever life throws at me I could handle it.
The reality is I am very much human..and I wouldn't want to be adding all that stress of an anxious potentially dangerous dog to raising a child.
More than that, I wouldn't want to be making these kinds of decisions while the baby was around. Putting a dog to sleep is a HORRIBLY PAINFULLY difficult choice... and I hate to say this but I wouldn't want to make that decision while the baby was around or even whilst late pregnancy. I would be stressed enough without that added layer of sadness and pain. I'm usually a "cross the bridge when you come to it" person or "see how he reacts to the actual baby"... but the very idea of dealing with that kind of decision WHILST raising a new born like a dark cloud hanging over this potentially wonderous beautiful start of a new family.. it isn't what I would want.
So I don't think it's odd that you made this thread now because really, it is something that need be thought of now, before anything.
Just my 2 cents as always.
I had to be on this side.. I really do. But the stress of a new baby (overtired, overworked, busy, stressed) is hard even with a regular happy dog who is OK with children.. the work needed to make a dog like Bamm even acceptably safe around children.. it's not something I would personally put on myself on top of raising a baby. Especially with 2 other dogs to also worry about.
There is work you could do, there are dogs I know who are AROUND kids who weren't once the best with kids, and there are dogs who like THEIR children (but none others)..
but it's not a risk I am personally comfortable with. It's not something I would like to always be on alert about. It's the whole lifestyle of the crate and rotate, of being separate, of having to keep and ever watchful eye, of putting on the muzzle, of making sure the baby doesn't do x y z and watching those SUBTLE signs from a dog to make sure things are safe. With a new baby...it's just not an extra stressor I would be able to do. I can't watch for tiny subtle changes in behavior whilst also dealing with a new baby and 2 other dogs...I would be so scared of me missing something and someone getting hurt that I'd end up with a dog in a crate 20 hours a day. That's the truth honestly, I know how I am and that...is not acceptable.
no matter what you are looking at a few DEFINITE factors when said baby arrives
- Your dogs will have less exercise/stimulation than usual (you are busy, you can't move around too much, you are very very tired)
- Your dogs will be separated from you a lot more, likely crated (you are with the baby and can't always have them around or be watching them with a baby in your arms)
- Your dogs will likely be stressed by all the strange smells, sounds and coming from said baby. Plus all the extra people around coming to visit baby.
- You will be tired and stressed (of course affecting them)
All of this, even on "regular" dogs, I've seen lead to some troublesome behavior..with a dog like Bamm
I fear the worst. I'm a dog walker and I walk a lot of dogs whose families just had babies. Some took to it well once they got used to things, some with borderline anxiety issues are now nervous wrecks.
You also have to deal with the reality of.. the child will change. Getting him used to a newborn isn't getting him used to a toddler.
and your child will have FRIENDS, who will likely want to be around or in the home. Are you ok with having a home with JUST your child? I know it may seem petty but child social politics is just one of those things.. having kids usually means having a lot of kids that aren't in your home AROUND.
I like to think I'm superwoman and that whatever life throws at me I could handle it.
The reality is I am very much human..and I wouldn't want to be adding all that stress of an anxious potentially dangerous dog to raising a child.
More than that, I wouldn't want to be making these kinds of decisions while the baby was around. Putting a dog to sleep is a HORRIBLY PAINFULLY difficult choice... and I hate to say this but I wouldn't want to make that decision while the baby was around or even whilst late pregnancy. I would be stressed enough without that added layer of sadness and pain. I'm usually a "cross the bridge when you come to it" person or "see how he reacts to the actual baby"... but the very idea of dealing with that kind of decision WHILST raising a new born like a dark cloud hanging over this potentially wonderous beautiful start of a new family.. it isn't what I would want.
So I don't think it's odd that you made this thread now because really, it is something that need be thought of now, before anything.
Just my 2 cents as always.
Bamm is having a rough night tonight. He's been lying on my bed for nearly an hour and I glanced up at him a little bit ago and he was stress panting badly.... nothing is going on though that usually triggers this kind of reaction in him. We've just been lying in bed relaxing and I'm not sure what he is stressing about right now. Every time I shift in bed he jumps like he is about to bolt at any second. Nolu and I talked on the phone for a bit and she mentioned the possibility of a brain tumor as well. Could a brain tumor affect a dog like this? I just gave him a happy traveler http://www.arknaturals.com/happy-traveler?productId=112 so hopefully that helps him relax so he can go to sleep.
That's why I really think that everything medically should be explored because some of what you explained regarding his behavior isn't just simple fear/reactivity.
If it is something like a brain tumor then at least (as terrible as it might be to learn ) you would know that his behavior wasn't under his control & he didn't "mean" it.
It could be anything, a chemical imbalance, anything. Leave no stone unturned.
If it is something like a brain tumor then at least (as terrible as it might be to learn ) you would know that his behavior wasn't under his control & he didn't "mean" it.
It could be anything, a chemical imbalance, anything. Leave no stone unturned.
My personal thoughts on your opinions regarding pregnancy and children aside, from what I can tell you take good care of your dogs, and so long as you continue to take good care of your dogs, your issues are no one elses business. I'm a little repulsed at the immature personal attacks and threats the people on this forum have initiated on you, simply because they don't like what you have to say.