Would you buy from a breeder who uses kennels?

cliffdog

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#41
*shrug* that's fine, and breeders/owners have every right to do what they think is right as long as the dogs/pups are well cared for

the point I was trying to make is that I DON'T feel that way.. so I probably wouldn't choose a breeder who did.

To me, dogs and puppies will always be loved pets, parts of the family, bed warmers, jogging partners.. etc.. that kind of thing lol
They might have a purpose other than that, but being companions is their main purpose
so I usually try to support a breeder who agrees with that state of mind
Understood :) We had a mini poodle when I was growing up who only ever went outside to bathroom. She wouldn't have been a good kennel dog and I would probably not buy a pet dog from a kennel breeder.
 

sillysally

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#42
Ok, so I am down with people buying from whatever breeder they want so don't take this as an attack as it's not meant that way. But I honestly am curious about this.

If the puppies that are coming out of the breeder aren't phased in the least by being brought into the home after being raised in kennels outside why does it matter? If they aren't afraid of things, bomb proof, stable dogs then why does if they are socialized in the homes make any difference?
My dogs will always be housedogs, companions and family members first, all performance things I may do with the dog is just icing on the cake. I believe that both stability and socialization are essential for a pup and therefore I want my pup to be in the house, with the family, experiencing home life from the day they pop out into the world. Just call it stacking the deck.
 

sillysally

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#43
Well that's rather how it is, to me, lol. Around my place, dogs are very well-loved and cared for livestock. Animals there for a working purpose.
For me, horses fall into the category of well loved livestock (although Sheena was with me years after she was retired from riding), but if I were buying a young horse from a breeder I would have much the same standards. Obviously the horse isn't going to be living in a house, but I would still want the colt exposed to as many aspects of typical horse life as possible when I picked it up.....
 
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#44
I guess it more that for the dogs I am drawn to I like that they turn out just as stable without fear of things that they haven't been exposed to. I like that they don't need to be around vacuums to still handle them like it's old news when they do or know that a slick floor isn't any different than the grass or dirt they grew up on. I like that this is what they are without being socialized extensively or exposed to much other than the ranch they grew up on but still manage to take on new things like it's nothing.

That's kinda why I almost put it in a plus category rather than a negative (depending on how it's done of course). I don't go looking for a breeder that uses kennels, I just tend to be drawn to that type of breeder. But that's why there is different types of chocolate!

But the biggest positive is that you then get to taunt your breeder with pictures of your dog snuggled up on a pillow under the covers while he shakes his head at you :rofl1:
 
M

MyHorseMyRules

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#45
I get the argument that you simply aren't comfortable with pups being raised in a kennel. Do I feel the same? No. But like Linds said, that's why there are different kinds of chocolate.

The only part I'm struggling with is the belief that they need to be raised indoors for them to be properly socialized. I mean, that's kind of the point of my comment about a solid, stable dog. A puppy doesn't have to experience EVERYTHING. Honestly, it's impossible. You can get pretty darn close if you try really, really hard and spend a lot of time and effort on it. But, IMO, it's not necessary. The key is simply teaching a dog how to react when experiencing something new. ETA: And it sure helps if the dogs being produced are stable dogs that are more likely to handle situations like that on their own.
 

cliffdog

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#46
For me, horses fall into the category of well loved livestock (although Sheena was with me years after she was retired from riding), but if I were buying a young horse from a breeder I would have much the same standards. Obviously the horse isn't going to be living in a house, but I would still want the colt exposed to as many aspects of typical horse life as possible when I picked it up.....
How you feel about horses is exactly how I feel about dogs. They should be exposed to all sorts of things and socialized. I don't think they need to be raised in the house for that. At least not for me, because they won't be living indoors when they get to my house anyways.
 

Lizmo

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#47
The only part I'm struggling with is the belief that they need to be raised indoors for them to be properly socialized. I mean, that's kind of the point of my comment about a solid, stable dog. A puppy doesn't have to experience EVERYTHING. Honestly, it's impossible. You can get pretty darn close if you try really, really hard and spend a lot of time and effort on it. But, IMO, it's not necessary. The key is simply teaching a dog how to react when experiencing something new. ETA: And it sure helps if the dogs being produced are stable dogs that are more likely to handle situations like that on their own.
^this is way better than what I could have written, so I'll just quote you. :D

Also, just a little thing, dogs that are raised in a kennel (say, born in the house, moved out to the kennel with mom at 3 weeks old) are still going to be around a huge amount of stimuli. Other dogs, barking, feeding times, let out to play in the yard with mom, let out to play by themselves, vaccinated, dogs being moved, crates shutting, doors closing, all the outdoor sounds, rain, thunder, snow, wind, grass, steps, being held, people coming and going, and so much more.
 

*blackrose

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#48
The only part I'm struggling with is the belief that they need to be raised indoors for them to be properly socialized. I mean, that's kind of the point of my comment about a solid, stable dog. A puppy doesn't have to experience EVERYTHING. Honestly, it's impossible. You can get pretty darn close if you try really, really hard and spend a lot of time and effort on it. But, IMO, it's not necessary. The key is simply teaching a dog how to react when experiencing something new. ETA: And it sure helps if the dogs being produced are stable dogs that are more likely to handle situations like that on their own.
Exactly how I feel.

Yes, I would prefer a breeder who raises the pups in the house...but I wouldn't turn down a breed whose pups are raised in a kennel, as long as the dogs (and earlier produced pups) are stable and well socialized.
 

sillysally

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#49
I get the argument that you simply aren't comfortable with pups being raised in a kennel. Do I feel the same? No. But like Linds said, that's why there are different kinds of chocolate.

The only part I'm struggling with is the belief that they need to be raised indoors for them to be properly socialized. I mean, that's kind of the point of my comment about a solid, stable dog. A puppy doesn't have to experience EVERYTHING. Honestly, it's impossible. You can get pretty darn close if you try really, really hard and spend a lot of time and effort on it. But, IMO, it's not necessary. The key is simply teaching a dog how to react when experiencing something new. ETA: And it sure helps if the dogs being produced are stable dogs that are more likely to handle situations like that on their own.
Well, a dog doesn't NEED to be from a breeder to be a great performance dog, but it's about stacking the deck, no?

If I intend to have a pup living indoors, I don't understand the benefit of having it raised outdoors.
 

noodlerubyallie

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#51
It depends on the purpose of the dog.

In no way, shape, or form would I buy a puppy, raised and living outside or inside in a kennel, from a breeder who is breeding a dog that is meant to protect people. They need the people interaction from day one, and an hour a day isn't going to cut it.

Rocket's breeder has 6 permanent residents, on up to 10 adult Dobermans (plus a litter of puppies, occasionally) that have to be separated. Every room has a door and a baby gate. She has two runs in her garage for the puppies when they are about 5-7 weeks...prior to that they are inside and after that they are crated. There's a huge yard, plus the backyard has 6 runs and two extra separate areas off the side of the house. During nice weather everyone spends most of the day outside, but every night every one of those dogs is asleep in the house. They all have their designated areas in the house so everyone gets house time, attention, and outside time - all supervised.

What's the point of keeping dogs outside that are meant to protect the people inside, you know?

In other breeds? Possibly, depends on what the dog is bred for and the climate they live in. Here, it's crazy cold in the winter and really hot and humid in the summer, so I wouldn't expect most dogs to live in an outdoor kennel year round. I see it, but it's not as common. I could totally see Siberians outside, as well as any of the Sporting/Herding breeds and some of the Guardians....I guess what I'm getting at is purpose of the dog is what leads me to my opinion.
 

Emily

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#52
Well, a dog doesn't NEED to be from a breeder to be a great performance dog, but it's about stacking the deck, no?
Hmm. I guess then it's about whether or not you believe that being raised indoors is "stacking the deck". I know I don't.
 
M

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#53
I would think that getting a puppy from a breeder whose dogs have proven they have stable nerves and the confidence necessary to handle any situation WOULD be stacking the deck.

But like I said, everyone has their own opinion.
 
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#54
Hmm. I guess then it's about whether or not you believe that being raised indoors is "stacking the deck". I know I don't.
I would think that getting a puppy from a breeder whose dogs have proven they have stable nerves and the confidence necessary to handle any situation WOULD be stacking the deck.

But like I said, everyone has their own opinion.
They both said it so perfectly, I'll just repeat them.
 

SizzleDog

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#55
It depends on the purpose of the dog.

In no way, shape, or form would I buy a puppy, raised and living outside or inside in a kennel, from a breeder who is breeding a dog that is meant to protect people. They need the people interaction from day one, and an hour a day isn't going to cut it.

Rocket's breeder has 6 permanent residents, on up to 10 adult Dobermans (plus a litter of puppies, occasionally) that have to be separated. Every room has a door and a baby gate. She has two runs in her garage for the puppies when they are about 5-7 weeks...prior to that they are inside and after that they are crated. There's a huge yard, plus the backyard has 6 runs and two extra separate areas off the side of the house. During nice weather everyone spends most of the day outside, but every night every one of those dogs is asleep in the house. They all have their designated areas in the house so everyone gets house time, attention, and outside time - all supervised.

What's the point of keeping dogs outside that are meant to protect the people inside, you know?

In other breeds? Possibly, depends on what the dog is bred for and the climate they live in. Here, it's crazy cold in the winter and really hot and humid in the summer, so I wouldn't expect most dogs to live in an outdoor kennel year round. I see it, but it's not as common. I could totally see Siberians outside, as well as any of the Sporting/Herding breeds and some of the Guardians....I guess what I'm getting at is purpose of the dog is what leads me to my opinion.
Totally agree. Obviously I'm find with my dobes' breeder's setup as well, since NRA and I both have dogs from the same breeder.

Wanted to clarify- by "garage" - we mean "climate controlled room adjacent to the garage."

If I'm buying a personal protection breed, I want that puppy to have had close physical contact with a human being for a hefty chunk of its young life thus far. Especially in a breed that is known for their profound attachment to their owners.
 

sillysally

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#56
Hmm. I guess then it's about whether or not you believe that being raised indoors is "stacking the deck". I know I don't.
But again, why NOT have a pup exposed to all of the house sounds if you are going to have it in the house? I personally think that the more things a pup is exposed to early in life the better. If you don't think that makes a difference, then don't worry about it.

I guess I'm not sure why this is really an issue. I am going to have my dogs in my home, so why have them raised in a home from day 1?
 
M

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#58
Why does a dog have to be raised in a kennel to prove this?
Did I say that? I was saying that the dogs being produced are far more important to me than whether they were raised in a house or in a kennel. If you'll refer to my earlier post, I said that I understand people not wanting them to be raised outside of the home itself simply because they're not comfortable with it. But to say that they have to be raised inside to be properly socialized...? That, I don't get.
 

sillysally

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#59
Did I say that? I was saying that the dogs being produced are far more important to me than whether they were raised in a house or in a kennel. If you'll refer to my earlier post, I said that I understand people not wanting them to be raised outside of the home itself simply because they're not comfortable with it. But to say that they have to be raised inside to be properly socialized...? That, I don't get.
I don't think I said that they HAD to be raised inside to be properly socialized. I do think that it is more likely that they will be socialized and raised in the way that I am interested in and comfortable with if they are raised inside. It's not like I am going to call a breeder, ask if their pups are raised inside, and if they are look no further. I have a list of things I want in a breeder and on that list is pups raised indoors.
 

Emily

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#60
But again, why NOT have a pup exposed to all of the house sounds if you are going to have it in the house? I personally think that the more things a pup is exposed to early in life the better. If you don't think that makes a difference, then don't worry about it.

I guess I'm not sure why this is really an issue. I am going to have my dogs in my home, so why have them raised in a home from day 1?
It's not that there's any real reason NOT to do it. Myself and a few others are just saying that it makes little difference, in the end. In other words, there's no reason TO do it, either. We're all just saying that a stable dog won't flip if it wasn't exposed to a vacuum from birth onwards, and sees one at 8 weeks. That's all. So for me, finding a breeder that is producing the kind of dog I want is more important than house/kennel/chain spot, as long as the dogs are well-cared for.

I dunno, my Cardi was raised in a home and VERY well socialized. And yep, she has a great temp, is a great performance prospect, and a god awful housepet. Too much energy, too much drive, no offswitch. Luckily I don't care, LOL, and I think it's kind of funny. Her breeder did some things early on that I SUPER appreciate, like encouraging her to retrieve and nurturing her prey drive, that I do feel helped shape her into a better performance dog.

BUT, I know lots of breeders of working dogs (Mals, Dutchies, GSDs, the like) that do all those things, and the pups live in kennels. Some people involved in bite sports will actually tell you that kennels are better for pups, because too many house rules will squash drive (not saying I agree, just pointing out a their way of thinking).

I mean, you have to understand that Lindsey and I have the shared experience of having a woman with a skittish rescue Dobe watch Traveler playing as a 9 week old puppy. She remarked, "What a confident little puppy! He must have been socialized early." And both of us just sat there and thought, "He didn't leave the ranch he was born on until he flew across the world to come here..." Watching a kennel raised pup from parents that are not pets but dogs that have to work to eat (and will be leaving if they don't work) adapt to life as a housepet and sport dog with no problem has strongly influenced both our opinions (if I may speak for you, Linds. :D)

Like I said, no one's saying there's any reason NOT to raise them in the house, just that we've not found any particular benefit either.
 

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