Age to aquire a service dog?

I'm not going to get any farther into the "task" discussion, because frankly it's not my area of expertise. I do, however, agree with the others who said that it's not a matter of "personal opinion" what mitigates a "task," but it's a legal definition.

It's like when they talk about a "hate crime." IMO a LOT of crimes are hate crimes, because you have to have a certain amount of hatred toward the person to be able to pull off the crime. But yet, only a small percentage of those crimes are considered hate crimes; there's a very specific legal definition that it has to fit.

Getting [sort of] back to the original topic....
This is very important to note for evaluating a service dog for yourself. Now we're talking about how the dog would have to do this behavior without being cued, as well as when you are somewhat unconscious.

For a dog to do a behavior without being directly cued, he has to have a certain level of independence; guide dogs and hearing dogs are pretty independent in their job because they have to constantly be making decisions on their own. So you need an independent, people-oriented dog; IMO it's difficult to evaluate for these dogs because it's hard to know how independent is too independent, and how much is not enough. Plus you'll need the dog to take cues from your behavior, which may be very subtle, so he'll need to be very intuned with you and your body language.

For a dog to do a behavior while you are "out of it," you need a dog that one trainer described to me as being "honest." An honest dog will do what he's supposed to do even when no one's around to watch him. These dogs are difficult to find.

So you need an independent, intune, honest dog. Whew. And that's just for that one behavior.

You also mentioned you'd need the dog to brace you? Now we're talking about a tall, body insensitive dog.

I really hope you reconsider getting a dog from an organization. Even a dog from a breeder would be a great option because at least if it doesn't work out, you can return it to the breeder; if you get a dog from a shelter you will have to find a new home for the dog yourself, which is not easy.

What you're saying about tactile stimulation makes sense, since the medical problems you're describing sound extremely similar to what I have.

With dissociation, any tactile stimulation is helpful. Even just being aware of your sleeve feeling itchy. I've been practicing for a long time because when I go out I'm out for 20 mins to a few hours out a time. The latest time it happened to me the last thing I remembered before blacking out was: 1. My mouth was dry and 2. My breath tasted gross. :rofl1:

How lucid are you throughout the episode? (btw, you don't have to post your answer, these are just questions to think about while figuring out what tasks are most helpful)

The way Strider helps me is this:

1. We were extremely lucky and he began alerting early enough that I figured out the triggers. So thank you Strider, for helping with that.

How many triggers are you aware of? What kinds of things are they? I am triggered by various sensory things, including specific smells. We taught Strider to alert to the presence of a couple of specific reproducible smells because he can sense them before I do. Then we can leave the area where I am being exposed to the trigger, before something bad happens. Another trigger is being touched by strangers, especially from behind. To manage that trigger, he is trained to move around me and brace, essentially body blocking people from accidentally bumping me (like in elevators or grocery lines).

2. Leading to safety.

This really can be helpful. When I start to check out, I lose lucidity really fast. There is a window where I can sort of whistle very quietly through my teeth before I'm totally gone. At that point Strider is literally dragging me along while I whistle the signals for right, left, straight, stop, wait, faster, and slower. I think that's when most folks think I'm blind, because he's really good at it and totally weaves me through thick crowds at a good clip. Usually I have him take me to a bathroom or my car if it's close enough.

3. Body blocking during an episode. We didn't train this one. It most certainly could be trained. He generalized the regular body block to when I am checked out, and will only let my mom or my husband touch me while I'm out. This is definitely one that would be useful to train if stranger touches are a trigger, as people will come up to you and shake you, etc. if you're looking all weird and catatonic in public.

There are others that are related to different areas I need help in, but those are the main ones that coincide with yours. I hope it helps and maybe gives you some ideas for tasks that could help you.

This is really fascinating, thanks for sharing!

Do you have "go to the car" on cue, or do you just direct him back to it?

I too would like to know if you've trained a "go to the car" cue. I'm considering how to go about teaching this to Enzo.

I just direct him back to it, though a couple of times I lost lucidity completely in the middle of a crowd while guiding him back and woke up sitting on the curb next to my car (once it was over 6 blocks from where I last remembered). In those instances I don't know if I continued to direct him even though I was out of it, or if he just took initiative and decided to continue going to the car on his own since that's where I usually directed him before. He's really good at generalizing and stringing together behaviors on his own.

He's a pretty good example of an "honest" dog by your definition. We can leave him unsupervised around steaks for extended periods and he won't touch them, won't get on furniture, will continue to work when I'm out of it, etc. I had no idea finding a dog like that was so rare though. We're really lucky I guess.

Another thing I'd like the dog to be able to do is alert me to "manic driving". Like if we're in the car, and I start going 80 mph, I'd like the dog to start barking or something. It would also be good if he could notice if I'm not wearing my seat belt and bark until I put it on.

I doubt I could teach a dog to alert to things like running lights or changing lanes repeatedly, but probably since my heart rate gets really high and my blood pressure and stuff when I'm having a manic episode, I could teach an alert based on that cue.

If you are doing things like that why are you driving?

exactly ? very dangerous and you could kill people.

I don't drive. (Well, I drive to work, which is five miles away, but not if I'm having an episode.) But if I had a service dog who could alert me to things like that (mainly speeding), I might be able to drive more, alone.

People who have epilepsy aren't supposed to drive, but they can drive in a lot of states if they have an alert dog in the car with them.

i understand wanting to be independant , i struggle with this with my son every single day , i dont know you or how well your seizures are controlled , but this scares the crap out of me for you. in louisiana you have to be seizure free for 6 months before you can drive , know my son will easily make those milestones when he is able to learn to drive , but between the way his meds make him spacey and that plain old attention span problems from his seizures he will never drive as long as i am alive. it is to risky. i know everyones disorders affect them diffrent but i strongly feel if a person is having theses types of problems they should never drive.

it is hard to be independant when your dead.

again i am not passing judgement , but please please be careful

A dog will not alert to you speeding. A dog has to rest sometimes - and usually that's during driving and other down time. I dog simply cannot go-go-go all the time and then just sleep at night like a person does.

You need to be realistic. Asking a dog to tell you when you're driving terrible is like asking a guide dog to help a blind person drive. It's just NOT going to happen.

If you can't drive safely, you shouldn't be driving at all. Period.

Dogs are not Lassie. They are dogs. They have the mentality of a TODDLER. You wouldn't ask a 2 year old to help you drive, would you?

Also, just because someone has a seizure alert dog doesn't mean they can drive. To have a service dog you have to be disabled. If you are having one seizure every 6 months, that's not really disabling. If you are having seizures often and can't drive for that reason, having an alert dog shouldn't change that. Dogs can and do fail. I know multiple people with seizure alert dogs and each of them has failed to alert at least once.

No, there are no states where it is legal for you to drive if you have seizures but also have a seizure dog. As Sael said, dogs can and do make mistakes and it is foolish, IMO, to expect them to save you in a life-or-death situation.

I know that alerting to speeding IS a trainable task that some service dogs do, including the dogs trained for ex-soldiers. I'm also pretty sure that it used to be (don't know if it changed) that you could drive with epilepsy in NYS if you had a seizure alert dog with you. (and by pretty sure I mean I knew two separate people who had seizure alert dogs who told me this, I have no idea if they were making it up or not...they both got the dogs from organizations).

Even though I have episodes (they aren't considered seizures, I don't think. I'm not even talking about the manic episodes at this point, they are pretty rare (a few times a year) and I've never been stupid/crazy enough to drive while having one, I'm talking about the fainting, I still have a driver's license and can drive legally (I've been in one car accident already because of it, when my parents made me get my license and drive myself around).

I dunno, who tells you if you're legally not supposed to be driving because of a disability? Your doctor? I mean, I think legally I am allowed to drive and I don't because I'm not that naive or stupid or into killing people.

Regardless of whether alerting to high speed in trainable or not, it's irresponsible to drive if you are prone to such episodes. It is not something I would rely on a dog for or something anyone should rely on a dog for.

I tihnk you need to sit down and think long and hard about whether a service dog is what you need at this point in time. If you still decide that yes, it is, you need to carefully consider what tasks are appropriate and possible and what tasks aren't possible or reliable. Then you need to consider either hiring a private trainer to help you train, or getting a dog from a program. If you do decide to get a service dog, I highly, highly recommend a program dog. From a REPUTABLE program. One that has task-trained dogs.

The proper term for an "ex-soldier" is a veteran. That's one of my pet peeves. Ex-soldier sounds disrespectful. My dad is a Vietnam veteran so it's something I'm kind of sensitive about.

Theres this thing, called a govenors chip (I think thats the name) that you can put in your car so you CANT speed.
my dad stuck one in my car, I would hit about 60 or so and it would automatically slow down and if you kept pushing it, it would slow down to a stop.

Sounds like it would be perfect for you, like instead of a dog alerting you, your car wouldn't let you speed

Or maybe even something that made a noise ( like a loud beeping) once you went over 60+ MPH, a dog could surely hear that as a signal..
though with the beeping. i dont think you would need the dog to alert you to your speeding..

hope it helps!

That's a great idea! MUCH safer and more reliable than a service dog trying to tell you you're speeding. Probably much cheaper too.

Fran, that would probably be helpful but right now I don't drive because of my fainting episodes, not speeding. But if I do, in the future get over that, and still have manic episodes, I will certainly look into it.

Why is the term ex-soldier disrespectful? That completely baffles me. I have never heard anyone complain about that term before, even the "veterans" and currently serving people I know use it. I can't even think of a reason that would be offensive, but maybe I'm totally missing something?


I don't plan on getting a service dog for another 3-5 years, actually. At the very soonest it would be 2 years.


And another question, which I hope doesn't sound rude, is this: If you so strongly recommend getting a service dog from a program, why didn't you go through a program to get your service dog? Just curious if there was a reason or something you changed your mind on?

Not rude - I actually welcome this question.

I would have loved to go through a program. But very, very few programs will train a dog for an autistic adult. Some will on a case-by-case basis. Some won't even consider it. Going through a program would have been a sure thing, which is what I need. I am banking everything on Logan working out, and so far so good - I am confident that he will make it, but it's still a risk.

Now, out of those programs that will consider training a service dog for an autistic adult...NONE will train any sort of guide work. Guide work is a HUGE, HUGE portion of what I need, task-wise. Of course if I got a program dog I would try to tack on guidework on my own, though it's more difficult if the dog has been trained to heel extensively. Not impossible, but more difficult.

Up until about January, maybe February, I was set on getting a program dog. However, this one thing changed my mind. I realized that I was going to go to Bergin U for graduate school. They require you to have a dog to work with. I would be going to school to learn how to train a service dog. Thus, after 2 years at Bergin, I should logically have a fully trained service dog. I posted this dilemma on the SD board, and I was encouraged by the one member I trust the most and knows me the best to train my own service dog.

Why did she say that? I already have a good deal of experience training dogs. Gavroche has been trained a lot of service dog skills, and were it not for his hips, his obsession with cats, and a few other little temperament imperfections that have surfaced (post-hip issues), he would be my service dog. But primarily because of his hips, I washed him out. Also, my dad has been a dog trainer for over 40 years. He has trained guide and service dogs. Therefore I have my own professional trainer just a text, phonecall, or 10 minute drive away.

Now, even with all this encouragement and everything going for me, I still would rather have a program dog, but that would mean 3 dogs in the house by the time I'm done with school. A lot of places won't place a service dog in a household that already has multiple dogs in it.

But then Logan came along, and sealed the deal - I am now owner training. Some things with Bergin have changed. Originally I was looking to get a puppy in August, just after the fall master's session at Bergin. turns out I'm not going to Bergin until spring now. I also took a long, hard look at puppy raising and decided that it's not for me, at least not now. So I wanted an adult. Good adult service dog candidates aren't really all that easy to come by, so when Romy told me about Moxie Collies and I learned that had not one but TWO adults available, I jumped on the opportunity. I originally had wanted Amos, but after talking with Mel we decided Logan was a better fit, and she was absolutely right.

I would not necessarily have been confident in picking a service dog sight unseen, but between Romy and Mel I was confident that they'd made a good choice, and they're right Typically I suggest OTers find a trainer first, then have the trainer help them choose a dog.

Plus, Logan is not going to be JUST a service dog. He's my introduction to conformation as well, and he will be competing at least in rally and probably in obedience and agility as well. So even if he were to wash out of service work for some unforeseen reason, he's still got a lot to offer me.

Also forgot to add - service dogs have been my special interest for 2 years. This means I have been researching their behavior, training, and service dog law EXTENSIVELY for 2 years. A special interest is pretty much all-consuming.