Friend advice or: how shallow am I?
- Thread starter Jules
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I think broached as "hey, this cut would look cute on you" or "have you ever though of trying this" as part of a separate conversation is one thing but to say in response to "Guys never ask me out" something like "well try this haircut" is totally different.
If she is unsure and has low self esteem and is "hiding" her looks or self that is totally different and can use a nudge. But to say hey, you could get a guy if you wore this or cut this is not ok imo
If she is unsure and has low self esteem and is "hiding" her looks or self that is totally different and can use a nudge. But to say hey, you could get a guy if you wore this or cut this is not ok imo
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IF you know the friend has not changed her hairstyle in all these years because she's lacking confidence or motivation, or is worried about what people with think/say if she changes...if you know this FOR SURE, I see nothing wrong with encouraging her to try something new.
If she's perfectly content with the way she is and likes her hairstyle and has the idea she shouldn't need to dress to impress to get a boyfriend, even if it's simple things like a new haircut or more flattering clothes, there's no reason to say anything (and she will likely be offended if you do).
There's a difference between helping a friend who is a bit fashion clueless or less interested in aesthetics than you if they are interested in looking more approachable, and telling someone that if they want guys to notice them they should make an effort to change how they look - even if it's just basic style tips and not changing who they are or how they dress.
If she's perfectly content with the way she is and likes her hairstyle and has the idea she shouldn't need to dress to impress to get a boyfriend, even if it's simple things like a new haircut or more flattering clothes, there's no reason to say anything (and she will likely be offended if you do).
There's a difference between helping a friend who is a bit fashion clueless or less interested in aesthetics than you if they are interested in looking more approachable, and telling someone that if they want guys to notice them they should make an effort to change how they look - even if it's just basic style tips and not changing who they are or how they dress.
and if she was totally happy with her life now.. and wasn't worrying about WHAT she was doing wrong and why guys aren't approaching..
I would totally say leave her alone.
But it's obvious there is something wrong. She is lonely, she is complaining, she wanted advice.. I don't think it's wrong for you to tell her how you feel and give your honest advice
I would totally say leave her alone.
But it's obvious there is something wrong. She is lonely, she is complaining, she wanted advice.. I don't think it's wrong for you to tell her how you feel and give your honest advice
Yes, this!
I don't think Jules is saying she should change herself to get dates. But obviously the girl isn't happy and as a best friend I don't think it's out of the way to think about maybe saying "Hey, you're awesome but maybe a new haircut could give you a little edge and make you feel better"
But, if she's happy with how things are/her hair/her life then she shouldn't change.
I don't think Jules is saying she should change herself to get dates. But obviously the girl isn't happy and as a best friend I don't think it's out of the way to think about maybe saying "Hey, you're awesome but maybe a new haircut could give you a little edge and make you feel better"
But, if she's happy with how things are/her hair/her life then she shouldn't change.
About the OT, eh looks and all that...
But I really just wanted to post and say... My best friend would tell me. I would WANT my best friend to tell me, we are very honest with each other and we talk about being truthful in that way all the time. And yes I would tell her, gently, but I would
that includes you too Jess LOL
But I really just wanted to post and say... My best friend would tell me. I would WANT my best friend to tell me, we are very honest with each other and we talk about being truthful in that way all the time. And yes I would tell her, gently, but I would
that includes you too Jess LOL
This ^^^
Tho I have a slightly related funny story since the topic of gender confusion kinda came up: I have a really good guy friend who is Native American & has long hair (same length as mine ... Waist length (beautiful ... Hate him) thick, long glossy black hair. Well he was on a date with this girl & the server comes up & says "so what can I get you LADIES to drink?" My bud took it in stride & was just like "well... I'd like a coke." LOL the server & his date were modified but he was like "eh" lol.
When my hair as short years ago I also got confused for a boy oftentimes.
Tho I have a slightly related funny story since the topic of gender confusion kinda came up: I have a really good guy friend who is Native American & has long hair (same length as mine ... Waist length (beautiful ... Hate him) thick, long glossy black hair. Well he was on a date with this girl & the server comes up & says "so what can I get you LADIES to drink?" My bud took it in stride & was just like "well... I'd like a coke." LOL the server & his date were modified but he was like "eh" lol.
When my hair as short years ago I also got confused for a boy oftentimes.
Great point.
I am not a "girly girl" however I understand the importance of looks. Clean hair, clean face, clean clothes. They get you in the door, your personality keeps you there. I choose to look my best, for me, and when it pleases those around me I enjoy it. I also enjoy when people think I am smart and funny, it shows I've made an effort and it has paid off.
I spent a lot of time when I was younger not looking my best because I didn't know how to without being uncomfortable. Be the friend who helps her try. If she decides against it then no harm, no foul. If she decides she loves it, awesome!
I wear sweats and my hair a mess with my boyfriend but my effort, not my natural born looks, helped show him (or my job interviews, for another important example) I cared about myself and how he saw me when we met. This doesn't make anyone shallow, this merely shows people know the importance of appearance and all that comes with it.
I am not a "girly girl" however I understand the importance of looks. Clean hair, clean face, clean clothes. They get you in the door, your personality keeps you there. I choose to look my best, for me, and when it pleases those around me I enjoy it. I also enjoy when people think I am smart and funny, it shows I've made an effort and it has paid off.
I spent a lot of time when I was younger not looking my best because I didn't know how to without being uncomfortable. Be the friend who helps her try. If she decides against it then no harm, no foul. If she decides she loves it, awesome!
I wear sweats and my hair a mess with my boyfriend but my effort, not my natural born looks, helped show him (or my job interviews, for another important example) I cared about myself and how he saw me when we met. This doesn't make anyone shallow, this merely shows people know the importance of appearance and all that comes with it.
Don't have much to add other than what Fran said a page or so back.
If she does end up asking for advice, be gentle. You know her better than any of us and you know how she'll respond to different approaches.
As far as the "you shouldn't change for people" and "looks aren't who you are", I agree wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, first impressions generally stem from a basic analysis of a person's looks. Nobody's asking anyone to become a fashionista, but if you look like you don't care or know what you look like, people probably won't be as interested in what you have to offer, be it a prospective mate, employer, or customer. Showing you care what you look like, even to a very basic "I wear clean, properly fitted clothes and my hair works with my face" extent will unlock the doors. Those doors need to be unlocked before your personality can draw someone in.
I trust the OP knows their friend well enough to make the right decision and find the right words. Good luck to you and your friend.
If she does end up asking for advice, be gentle. You know her better than any of us and you know how she'll respond to different approaches.
As far as the "you shouldn't change for people" and "looks aren't who you are", I agree wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, first impressions generally stem from a basic analysis of a person's looks. Nobody's asking anyone to become a fashionista, but if you look like you don't care or know what you look like, people probably won't be as interested in what you have to offer, be it a prospective mate, employer, or customer. Showing you care what you look like, even to a very basic "I wear clean, properly fitted clothes and my hair works with my face" extent will unlock the doors. Those doors need to be unlocked before your personality can draw someone in.
I trust the OP knows their friend well enough to make the right decision and find the right words. Good luck to you and your friend.
Pretty much all of what Fran said. I used to wear jeans and t shirts 90% of the time. I still do, but they actually FIT me now. And I look cute and I look like me. There are ways to still look like you and be approachable to the opposite (or same) sex.
If she's sad and upset and wants something to change I would definitely tell her. If you can, do it in person (or at least over the phone). I see that conversation going wrong in so many ways via text.
If she's sad and upset and wants something to change I would definitely tell her. If you can, do it in person (or at least over the phone). I see that conversation going wrong in so many ways via text.
It depends on your friendship, how well you can tell each other things like that, and how you think she'd react. I'd be pretty hurt if someone told me I was a mess lol. But I'd appreciate it in the long run.... I like honesty. And bonus if said friend wanted to help me sort my look out... I HATE clothes shopping and hairdressers!!
She might need and want a guiding hand.
She might not... And might just be very offended!!
And how shallow are you LOL
She might need and want a guiding hand.
She might not... And might just be very offended!!
And how shallow are you LOL
Looks aren't WHO you are, but feeling confident about your looks sure can change how you feel about who you are, and how other people perceive you.
Fran posted so many good points and good advice, and so have several others.
And it could be, Jules, that your friend, growing up where and how she did, doesn't KNOW how to go about this kind of stuff, and feels self-conscious about not knowing. Walking into a salon, shopping for clothes outside your comfort zone, learning about skin care (let alone a little basic make-up) can be very intimidating and make you feel vulnerable, shallow and downright weird, especially when you don't have a plan when you go in! Or someone who is comfortable with it and supportive to go with you.
Fran posted so many good points and good advice, and so have several others.
And it could be, Jules, that your friend, growing up where and how she did, doesn't KNOW how to go about this kind of stuff, and feels self-conscious about not knowing. Walking into a salon, shopping for clothes outside your comfort zone, learning about skin care (let alone a little basic make-up) can be very intimidating and make you feel vulnerable, shallow and downright weird, especially when you don't have a plan when you go in! Or someone who is comfortable with it and supportive to go with you.
It sounds like me too. LOL As I type this in jeans, t shirt and ponytail. I rarely wear makeup.
Right now though, I'm down about 40 lbs and finding it hard to figure out what to wear and how to wear it! So personally I'd love help, maybe when I'm finished dropping weight in a few months.
For your friend, you don't have to say 'YOU SHOULD CHANGE' but mention going to get a pedi mani for yourself and ask if she's gone, suggest she should try it. Hair, same thing. Simply mentioning things you're doing can help hint her in the right direction and bring it up without poking at her choices. If you say 'I have a date Friday, so Thursday I'm getting my nails done to match my skirt' can open the door and give her things to consider.
I was raised as a tomboy in a way - crazy family and my 'mother' liked my sister more (my sister is a 'barbie' who lives for makeup and the mall), so I didn't go shopping, I didn't get really ANY advice or help on hair or makeup or dressing, so I struggle in that area a lot.
If you were closer I'd suggest the makeover thing as a girly weekend idea, maybe if you know of some friends there you can suggest it to them, and chip in. Or if she ever comes to visit.....
Right now though, I'm down about 40 lbs and finding it hard to figure out what to wear and how to wear it! So personally I'd love help, maybe when I'm finished dropping weight in a few months.
For your friend, you don't have to say 'YOU SHOULD CHANGE' but mention going to get a pedi mani for yourself and ask if she's gone, suggest she should try it. Hair, same thing. Simply mentioning things you're doing can help hint her in the right direction and bring it up without poking at her choices. If you say 'I have a date Friday, so Thursday I'm getting my nails done to match my skirt' can open the door and give her things to consider.
I was raised as a tomboy in a way - crazy family and my 'mother' liked my sister more (my sister is a 'barbie' who lives for makeup and the mall), so I didn't go shopping, I didn't get really ANY advice or help on hair or makeup or dressing, so I struggle in that area a lot.
If you were closer I'd suggest the makeover thing as a girly weekend idea, maybe if you know of some friends there you can suggest it to them, and chip in. Or if she ever comes to visit.....
I am a jeans/ t shirt /sweater or whatever kinda gal. As I type this I am wearing my fave tommy jeans (loose bootcut they "fit" but they aren't the "poured into them" type that's in right now ... I REFUSE to wear those XP ) I just wear my hair & clothes that flatter my figure & most importantly ... Fit my personality.
Thank you for all the responses and I'm sorry for not responding sooner, we were on a road trip (and now I'm just on my phone).
The thing is she's not shy at all. She does a TON of co-ed sports and therefore meets a lot of people... I think the haircut is just because she's used to it and she's uncomfortable to go out of her comfort zone. She had the haircut since she was 5 or 6 because it was just easy (think of Gordon Ramsey's hair, that is what it looks like). I tried to do a makeover thing with her awhile ago and she seemed happy, but she falls back into her old ways.. Again, because it's easy. I wish I was closer to her and we could do all this stuff together.
And for the record, I'm not an overly girly girl. But I have changed my ways a bit (especially after loosing weight) and know how it feels when the public treats you differently. Now, I'm married and am not looking for love, but people will still treat you differently. Sure, it socks, but that's the way it unfortunately is. I just want her to be happy all around.
The thing is she's not shy at all. She does a TON of co-ed sports and therefore meets a lot of people... I think the haircut is just because she's used to it and she's uncomfortable to go out of her comfort zone. She had the haircut since she was 5 or 6 because it was just easy (think of Gordon Ramsey's hair, that is what it looks like). I tried to do a makeover thing with her awhile ago and she seemed happy, but she falls back into her old ways.. Again, because it's easy. I wish I was closer to her and we could do all this stuff together.
And for the record, I'm not an overly girly girl. But I have changed my ways a bit (especially after loosing weight) and know how it feels when the public treats you differently. Now, I'm married and am not looking for love, but people will still treat you differently. Sure, it socks, but that's the way it unfortunately is. I just want her to be happy all around.
I grew up a tomboy. I hated skirts and dresses and was raised with boys. My first "crush" (I was in 2nd grade) I'm pretty sure I only liked because he lived on a farm and had horses, pigs, LOTS of dogs, iguanas/other lizards, and peacocks. When I went to his house I got to play in the dirt outside, climb trees, and do all of the things that I couldn't do at my house.
When I was 18 I got my first skirt on my own free-will, realized how flipping comfortable it is, and was hooked. Now, I'm still a tomboy - I still have a somewhat crass sense of humor, brutally honest, hang out with mostly men, opinionated, feisty, not easily grossed out (unless there's blood and needles) - but I wear skirts most of the time. I don't *own* any make-up. I brush my hair once or twice a day, but that's only to keep it from being tangled. I don't blow it dry. Ever.
My clothes haven't changed who I am, but they do reflect a certain style of who I am (i.e. I don't wear neon colors and tiger stripes like my one of my best girlfriends does because that's not me). But honestly, if I hadn't had my mom, I wouldn't have had a clue how to do any of this. My mom I think likes living vicariously through me in the fashion world, as pretty much any time I come home she asks to take me shopping (which I still hate) and buys me a bunch of clothes. She still wishes I would get a pixie or bob cut hair cut (right now my hair's about 1/3 down my back and I love it), but if I didn't have my mom and my one girlfriend help me figure out how to do fashion, I would still be wearing jeans, t-shirts, and tennis shoes every day (which I still do pretty frequently, but I don't feel very good when I do that). I found one woman to cut my hair who was a genius with what would good on me, so when I wanted it cut, I just went and said, "I have no idea what I want, but here are my requirements [i.e. I don't have to blow dry it, because that will never, ever, ever happen]." That took a lot of bravery.
At the risk of sounding cocky, lots of men are after me. Good men, good friends, but men who aren't my type as far as personality goes, so nothing's happened. I think a lot of it is partially *because* of my tomboy-ness (although it has gone against me a few times) plus the fact that I found myself in my style and so I still maintain a bit of femininity about me. And with finding all of this about myself, I did gain a newfound confidence. It also wasn't until I went to that one salon and got that cut that I found a new confidence in my hair. I don't have the same style (actually, is the same style I had when I hated my hair and thought I was ugly), but I think my hair is pretty awesome now.
All of this to say: it's absolutely possible not to change or compromise who you are, and instead expand who you are by exploring some of these areas. Maybe approach it by asking her if she's ever thought about spicing up her life a bit by going on a whim and getting a new haircut (that haircut from that one stylist that changed my life? I went into her for a trim, and she suggested something else that met my requirements and I went with it), or something. Maybe ask why she's had the same haircut her whole life. You can be honest and help her without being brutal or mean.
When I was 18 I got my first skirt on my own free-will, realized how flipping comfortable it is, and was hooked. Now, I'm still a tomboy - I still have a somewhat crass sense of humor, brutally honest, hang out with mostly men, opinionated, feisty, not easily grossed out (unless there's blood and needles) - but I wear skirts most of the time. I don't *own* any make-up. I brush my hair once or twice a day, but that's only to keep it from being tangled. I don't blow it dry. Ever.
My clothes haven't changed who I am, but they do reflect a certain style of who I am (i.e. I don't wear neon colors and tiger stripes like my one of my best girlfriends does because that's not me). But honestly, if I hadn't had my mom, I wouldn't have had a clue how to do any of this. My mom I think likes living vicariously through me in the fashion world, as pretty much any time I come home she asks to take me shopping (which I still hate) and buys me a bunch of clothes. She still wishes I would get a pixie or bob cut hair cut (right now my hair's about 1/3 down my back and I love it), but if I didn't have my mom and my one girlfriend help me figure out how to do fashion, I would still be wearing jeans, t-shirts, and tennis shoes every day (which I still do pretty frequently, but I don't feel very good when I do that). I found one woman to cut my hair who was a genius with what would good on me, so when I wanted it cut, I just went and said, "I have no idea what I want, but here are my requirements [i.e. I don't have to blow dry it, because that will never, ever, ever happen]." That took a lot of bravery.
At the risk of sounding cocky, lots of men are after me. Good men, good friends, but men who aren't my type as far as personality goes, so nothing's happened. I think a lot of it is partially *because* of my tomboy-ness (although it has gone against me a few times) plus the fact that I found myself in my style and so I still maintain a bit of femininity about me. And with finding all of this about myself, I did gain a newfound confidence. It also wasn't until I went to that one salon and got that cut that I found a new confidence in my hair. I don't have the same style (actually, is the same style I had when I hated my hair and thought I was ugly), but I think my hair is pretty awesome now.
All of this to say: it's absolutely possible not to change or compromise who you are, and instead expand who you are by exploring some of these areas. Maybe approach it by asking her if she's ever thought about spicing up her life a bit by going on a whim and getting a new haircut (that haircut from that one stylist that changed my life? I went into her for a trim, and she suggested something else that met my requirements and I went with it), or something. Maybe ask why she's had the same haircut her whole life. You can be honest and help her without being brutal or mean.