Anti-Breeder Attitudes?

-bogart-

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You are right Fran , I dont care what happens to them beyond they are housed humanely and if not adopted out they are killed humanely.

You can not save them all. It will not happen. You can educate people on spay/neuter/responsible breeding/responsible rescues , but you can not save every dog in the shelter right now. AND You can NOT educate people by insulting them or talking down to them or attacking them.

The key to the whole problem is to Educate people on the way the shelter system works and to Educate people on what responsible breeders are , to Educate people on spay/neutering , to Educate people on puppymills. The goverment licensing needs to be changed so it is illegal to pump out 1000's of puppies every 60 days . Education is the key to all theses parts of the Huge overpopulation problem.

It is not so simple as any 10 word slogan , no matter what the slogan is.
 

Saeleofu

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You can not save them all. It will not happen. You can educate people on spay/neuter/responsible breeding/responsible rescues , but you can not save every dog in the shelter right now. AND You can NOT educate people by insulting them or talking down to them or attacking them.
:hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:
 

yoko

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I don't wish there was always going to be shelters because that would be wishing for irresponsible behavior.

But at the same time I hope that it never comes down to breeders being the only ones who can dictate who gets a dog and when.

The dog world is a giant intertwined ball of... Stuff. From what I've seen agility people are close, show people are close, etc. You offend one how many of their connections would be shut out to you at that time?

Like I've said I have run into pure breed dog elitism and would never want those people blocking good homes from getting a dog just because they disagreed.
 

elegy

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We have dogs to be our companions.. why pick a dog who won't mesh with our lives? Same as why we don't marry people we don't like or or not attracted to. Because I don't want to marry some guy because I don't like him and don't want to spend years with him does that mean I can't say I love my husband? Or my male child?

Why don't we blame those dumping, or target the breeders that ARE the problem? Why not blame the consumer? After all they are the one buying and dumping dogs... if they were more discerning of what dog they got there would be next to no dogs in shelters.

As I have said oft in the past. There is a 'simple' fix.

Force ALL breeders to be responsible for dogs for life. IF that causes dogs to be much more expensive for people.. fine that is just the way it will have to be. Chip all dogs with breeder's info. Any dog that ends up in a shelter will be offered back to the breeder, OR the breeder will be charged for that dog's stay in the shelter.

Not only would that fix the over population it would make breeders much more wary who they placed dogs with.

That solves the problem in many ways. Keeps funding to shelters and has a net result of producing less dogs whilst not stopping those doing it properly.
I would absolutely love those creating the dogs to be held responsible for those dogs for life, and I don't care if those puppies were oops puppies or intentionally bred. Those who are responsible in their breeding are already doing that, so it's certainly not an outlandish thought. I know if something happened and I could no longer keep Bean or Steve, they have somewhere to go.

But in this cash-and-carry dog breeding culture that is so prevalent, as soon as you walk that puppy off the property, that breeder's hands are washed of that pup. Cash in hand, pup out the door, that's the end of it. And if you change your mind, sorry. If you have a problem, well, it's *your* problem.

Is it a perfect solution? Of course not. Who is going to enforce it? Who is going to collect that money? Who is going to force those breeders to take those dogs back when they end up in the shelter and what becomes of those dogs then? But the idea of forcing responsibility onto breeders? Appeals to me very much.

I also do not think that shelters are blameless in this situation, either. Too many shelters have dramatically decreased their kill rates over the past several years for me to believe that shelters *have* to kill lots of dogs. But you have to make your shelter appealing to adopters, you have to make your dogs *accessible* to adopters, you have to reach out to the community and get them involved. And that's a lot of work and a lot of thinking outside the box, when it's just easier to sit back and wave your hands and blame the breeders for murdering the dogs rotting in your cement cells when you haven't even bothered to post their pictures up on Petfinder.
 

Gypsydals

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I don't have a problem with people rescuing a dog. BUT its not for me. I have went that route before. Our older guy is a rescue, our cat is a rescue/stray.
Yes there a few of the same breed that I am looking for in shelters BUT the shelters can not answer the questions I need answered. Can you tell me the health history of the dog in the shelters, the longevity of said dogs family, what kind of temperament the dog is going to have? No all a shelter can do is going to guess. I don't want guesses, I want straight forward answers to the best of the persons knowledge.

If I can't get what I am looking for then I will pass. Doesn't matter if I am going breeder or rescue. It is still my money I am spending, and I am going to spend my money on what I want, not what is there. I have limited space and here once an animal comes into the home, they.do.not.leave! They are here for the rest of their life. So knowing that I have to make the choice wisely.
 

Emily

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I'm glad that are people here who can remain calm in the face of astounding ignorance and explicate rational thinking when I am rendered incapable.

But you know, saying you need a specific kind of dog or needing to know the dog's history or background means you're saying rescue dogs aren't good enough for you. Duh.
 

Lyzelle

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But you know, saying you need a specific kind of dog or needing to know the dog's history or background means you're saying rescue dogs aren't good enough for you. Duh.
Obviously.

Although, I never did understand how that seems to work out. All the capable dog people get the easy, healthy, sound and sane dogs while the general uneducated public gets tossed the unhealthy, money hole, insane ones that they have no idea what to do with or how to train.

It's like...irony? I'm sure there's a better word.
 

crazedACD

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Obviously.

Although, I never did understand how that seems to work out. All the capable dog people get the easy, healthy, sound and sane dogs while the general uneducated public gets tossed the unhealthy, money hole, insane ones that they have no idea what to do with or how to train.

It's like...irony? I'm sure there's a better word.
Haha...I'm pretty sure it's because we know what to look for. Or, we tend to curb the issue right away instead of it festering and becoming a bigger and bigger issue. It's a lot easier to housebreak a dog that has never had the opportunity to pee in the new house, than the one that pees in the new house everyday.
 

Shai

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Obviously.

Although, I never did understand how that seems to work out. All the capable dog people get the easy, healthy, sound and sane dogs while the general uneducated public gets tossed the unhealthy, money hole, insane ones that they have no idea what to do with or how to train.

It's like...irony? I'm sure there's a better word.
Hey you just called a fair portion of this forum the uneducated public. Including me.

/me covers Kim's & Webster's ears. Poor pups...s'okay...mama loves you...

:p
 

Lyzelle

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Hey you just called a fair portion of this forum the uneducated public. Including me.

/me covers Kim's & Webster's ears. Poor pups...s'okay...mama loves you...

:p
No. :p You and most Chazzers are definitely capable dog people. LOL
 

Lyzelle

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Haha...I'm pretty sure it's because we know what to look for. Or, we tend to curb the issue right away instead of it festering and becoming a bigger and bigger issue. It's a lot easier to housebreak a dog that has never had the opportunity to pee in the new house, than the one that pees in the new house everyday.
Good point. Didn't think to look of it that way.
 

crazedACD

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Good point. Didn't think to look of it that way.
The ACO I work with that has some dogs, she said Oh I have this BC mix, she would so great at agility, you gotta come see her, best agility dog ever!

Yeah...the dog was like a 75lb fluffball of OMG LEAF OMG PERSON OMG ANOTHER DOG RAWR. Fantastic focus...on everything but me... hahaha. Not that a little training wouldn't help, but I do need some sort of stable foundation to work with.
 

Danefied

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I guess rescue dogs are good enough as long as they're for other people. I think that sums it up.
Does this make me a dog snob?

When I look at dogs - yes, rescue dogs, I have certain criteria.
Dog has to be large (little dogs with my lifestyle would be eaten by coyotes or swooped off by birds of prey. No, not kidding.)
Dog has to be good with kids, or at the very least tolerant.
Dog has to be short haired. Minimal to no undercoat.
Dog has to be comfortable living with other dogs.
Dog has to be comfortable living in a busy household.
Has to be a breed that I can put a decent recall on. We don't have a fenced yard.
Etc., etc., etc.
I'm willing to work on certain things, but the foudational temperament has to be there.

I have a house full of rescues and sloppy seconds. I have these dogs because I LIKE them, because we mesh, we jive... Whatever you want to call it, there was a connection there.

NOT because the other available rescue dogs weren't good enough.
Just because I don't choose to add a certain dog to my home and my life doesn't mean I don't think that dog is "good" enough. It means I want to give the dog the best chance of thriving in a forever home.
 

CaliTerp07

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Every time this comes up on chaz, I'm amazed at the idea of what the "general populous" looks like to some people. We on this forum are 100,000x more dog savvy than an average dog owner. Ever single one of my friends, family members, and coworkers who wants a dog has very general things they want in a critter. Long hair, blonde fur, low shedding, plays fetch, warms the couch, likes walks, good with kids, etc. These are not people with super specific expectations. I'd say easily 95% of them could be completely satisfied with a rescue at some point, because their needs are not specific.

The only specificity I've encountered comes from people who need a dog not to look like certain breeds or be guaranteed to stay under a certain size so they can keep it in an apartment. I've yet to run into anyone who says the reason they are going to a breeder is because they need a dog who will live to be over 14, who can compete in obedience, or who will have good herding instincts. That's just not a normal dog owner. Even people with a specific breed in mind (usually due to having a former dog of the same breed) describe wonder dogs from their childhood that don't match the breed standard at all, usually from the newspaper or whatever else.

We aren't normal, guys :)

"Normal" dog owners would never dream of importing a dog from Europe if the dog they wanted didn't exist here. Rarely would they say, "Oh darn, there are no purebred [insert breed here] puppies available? I don't want a dog then." They'd find a similar breed or a mix and wouldn't know the difference.

I'm not suggesting we throw completely incompatible dogs at people and say, "Here, love this no matter what", but I'm saying that most people's needs aren't completely incompatible with most dogs. The reason most dogs are at shelters is because they underestimated the amount of work involved in any dog. Most of them are there because the owners couldn't balance dog + baby, or figure out how to get a dog to stop magically shedding, or realized that shoot, a 5 minute walk around the block isn't enough for a dog of any breed, really.

Disclaimer: I did not read the whole thread, just the past 3-4 pages because I need to make a zillion copies and lesson plans before tomorrow :D
 

Xandra

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Every time this comes up on chaz, I'm amazed at the idea of what the "general populous" looks like to some people. We on this forum are 100,000x more dog savvy than an average dog owner. Ever single one of my friends, family members, and coworkers who wants a dog has very general things they want in a critter. Long hair, blonde fur, low shedding, plays fetch, warms the couch, likes walks, good with kids, etc. These are not people with super specific expectations. I'd say easily 95% of them could be completely satisfied with a rescue at some point, because their needs are not specific.

The only specificity I've encountered comes from people who need a dog not to look like certain breeds or be guaranteed to stay under a certain size so they can keep it in an apartment. I've yet to run into anyone who says the reason they are going to a breeder is because they need a dog who will live to be over 14, who can compete in obedience, or who will have good herding instincts. That's just not a normal dog owner. Even people with a specific breed in mind (usually due to having a former dog of the same breed) describe wonder dogs from their childhood that don't match the breed standard at all, usually from the newspaper or whatever else.

We aren't normal, guys :)

"Normal" dog owners would never dream of importing a dog from Europe if the dog they wanted didn't exist here. Rarely would they say, "Oh darn, there are no purebred [insert breed here] puppies available? I don't want a dog then." They'd find a similar breed or a mix and wouldn't know the difference.

I'm not suggesting we throw completely incompatible dogs at people and say, "Here, love this no matter what", but I'm saying that most people's needs aren't completely incompatible with most dogs. The reason most dogs are at shelters is because they underestimated the amount of work involved in any dog. Most of them are there because the owners couldn't balance dog + baby, or figure out how to get a dog to stop magically shedding, or realized that shoot, a 5 minute walk around the block isn't enough for a dog of any breed, really.

Disclaimer: I did not read the whole thread, just the past 3-4 pages because I need to make a zillion copies and lesson plans before tomorrow :D
Totally agree with this!
 

yoko

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Every time this comes up on chaz, I'm amazed at the idea of what the "general populous" looks like to some people. We on this forum are 100,000x more dog savvy than an average dog owner. Ever single one of my friends, family members, and coworkers who wants a dog has very general things they want in a critter. Long hair, blonde fur, low shedding, plays fetch, warms the couch, likes walks, good with kids, etc. These are not people with super specific expectations. I'd say easily 95% of them could be completely satisfied with a rescue at some point, because their needs are not specific.

The only specificity I've encountered comes from people who need a dog not to look like certain breeds or be guaranteed to stay under a certain size so they can keep it in an apartment. I've yet to run into anyone who says the reason they are going to a breeder is because they need a dog who will live to be over 14, who can compete in obedience, or who will have good herding instincts. That's just not a normal dog owner. Even people with a specific breed in mind (usually due to having a former dog of the same breed) describe wonder dogs from their childhood that don't match the breed standard at all, usually from the newspaper or whatever else.

We aren't normal, guys :)

"Normal" dog owners would never dream of importing a dog from Europe if the dog they wanted didn't exist here. Rarely would they say, "Oh darn, there are no purebred [insert breed here] puppies available? I don't want a dog then." They'd find a similar breed or a mix and wouldn't know the difference.

I'm not suggesting we throw completely incompatible dogs at people and say, "Here, love this no matter what", but I'm saying that most people's needs aren't completely incompatible with most dogs. The reason most dogs are at shelters is because they underestimated the amount of work involved in any dog. Most of them are there because the owners couldn't balance dog + baby, or figure out how to get a dog to stop magically shedding, or realized that shoot, a 5 minute walk around the block isn't enough for a dog of any breed, really.

Disclaimer: I did not read the whole thread, just the past 3-4 pages because I need to make a zillion copies and lesson plans before tomorrow :D
This is a good post.

If we were talking chazzers I might agree a bit more but when you talk all dog owners you just can't hold normal people to our standards.
 

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