Thinking of giving up Oakley

Julee

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#41
For in the house, look into decorative window film.. They're stickers that let natural light in, but make it so he can't see out well, and can't self reward with the reacting.
 

mrose_s

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#42
I only read the first coule of pages so I'll try not to repeat too much of whats already been said.

It sucks sometimes that some of us get difficult dogs, really difficult dogs. There are plenty of them on this board and I know, I have 2. Buster is riddled with anxiety, DR and over protective of his territory.
Quinn is timid, nervy, fearful and DR in a way that means I will never totally trust her with another dog.

Buster I ended up leaving at home when I moved out, something I never thought I would do - but he can't cope with Quinn's over assertivness and at 11, he doesn't deserve it.

Up until a year ago Quinn's behaviours where getting worse, she was increasingly DR, terrified of all people outside my family, visitors she would bark at and hide in corners, till they moved then she'd fly into a barking mess again, every new environment left her flighty and anxious etc.

She's improved a great deal but it has taken some serious work. It's meant creating time where I thought I didn't have any. Dealing with every situation when it arose as well as training set ups to work on her issues. Managing her to the enth degree... relaxing... having her mess up and then micromanaging again. She is the dog I relise I can never give an inch to.
It's meant excepting new training methods, crying my eyes out over mistake she has made due my error in judgement. crying my eyes out over mistakes she's made I just flat out didn't expect. crying my eyes out because she's just plain not the dog I was expecting.

I understand this is different, different issues, a much younger dog etc. Not to mention I do have more time and my boss is a behaviourist so our main hurdles are how ingrained her issues are and my mistakes handling.
But you need to accept that if you want to work through this, its not easy. Especially with a dog like him. It take consistent work over a long period of time and it will mean changing how you interact and relate to him OR accepting that you will have to manage his behaviour for the rest of his like (what I decided to do with Buster's anxiety - I just don't put him in too many stressful situations due to his age)

I would find a good veterinary behaviourist experienced in both anxiety and aggression. Then at least you know where you stand.
 

GipsyQueen

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#43
I am willing to put in work, it just cant be 2 hour walks. So all these ideas on mental stimulation are very helpful. I think I've had so many people tell me that I need to be taking him for 2 hour walks/park plays, etc everyday, that I forgot/didn't realize a 10-15 minute mental stim session might be more useful. I think I've been prioritizing walks over those sessions, cause I always thought I was cheating him out of physical activity or something if I was having to choose one over the other on hectic days.

I came here for options, and I have lots now! I am excited to re focus my energies with him on the RIGHT things vs wasting time on the wrong things (well, not like a walk is ever bad, but you know what I mean!)


Laurelin, thanks for all the ideas - those look fun! I guess I've indirectly done nosework with him & he really seems to like that, so I like that idea. Balane stuff sounds fun too!
mental stimulation sessions do magic for Zora. While she is not fearful or anything, she does get bored easily, and will whine at you, start nudging you, bark and nibble at you until you do somthing. She doesn't do it, because she hasn't walked enough that day, she does it because she is BORED. Extremly BORED. She's like a little kid that keeps coming up to you saying moooooommmmmmmmmy I'm boooorrrrreddddddd.

Anywho, she loves to search for things, so when she does the above, we hide pieces of dried mango throughout the house. 10 - 15 minutes and she's good to go.
We randomly hide treats thoughout walks for her to find when she's not looking. Like in the bark of trees, under leaves etc. just get creative. This doesn't add time to your walk, but simulates wonderfully. Or when I throw sticks (she loves sticks, though it's mindless... normaly) I've taught her to LOOK where its going. Because If I throw in one direction, she starts running before the stick has left my hand. Now she actually has to pay attention when the stick it through.

We also hide treats in things like under plastic pots, in towels, behind the sofa etc. etc. :) While we hide them she has to stay in a sit in another room, which for a 10 month old isn't exactly easy. ;)
 

Aleron

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#44
I've read through this thread and thought I'd offer some ummm...less science-y training advice.

First I would get Oakley used to wearing a basket muzzle. This can help so much with a dog who has a bite history, if for no other reason than because you can be more confident. You can have him wear the muzzle in situations which may present a bite risk.

Second I would condition him to wearing a head collar, which can really be done side by side with the muzzle conditioning. You can use this for walking him, it allows you to control his head much better and you can prevent him from lunging. Use it with a back up oversized slip collar though by attaching the leash both to the head collar ring and the slip collar ring. That way if he manages to get free of the head collar, he's still attached to the slip collar. You can also use it with him on a leash around the house to stop the foot biting.

Third is to teach him a really solid down stay or "place" (staying on a dog bed or chair or where ever you put him). By solid I mean he'll hold the position for 20+ minutes at a time. Another option to stop him from getting wound up and biting your feet after he comes in.

Fourth is to follow a training/management program that is designed to add structure to your dog's daily routine. Something like this: http://sue-eh.ca/page24/page8/ These programs include upping your dog's exercise. Do you have a treadmill? Do you have a spot for a treadmill? I got mine free posting a wanted ad on my local Freecycle. Treadmills are a great way to roadwork your dog, regardless of weather. The page I linked to has some other really good ideas for giving your dog a workout. You don't nessarily need to devote more time to exercise, you just have to make the time you already devote to it count for more. He goes for walks every day? Teach him to pull something on a harness while he's walking. Or to carry a weighted back pack. Exercise has been proven to reduce anxiety problems in humans and it seems to do the same for dogs.

Fifth is Crate Games. The real Crate Games, developed by Susan Garrett. It's not about getting your dog used to being in a crate. It's an entire training program that is easy to do in your house that teaches impulse control, stays and high level distraction work using nothing but treats and a crate. The DVD has clear, easy to follow steps on how to train through from just starting to using CGs to work your dog through issues with distraction (including things they are afraid of). It's also a good mental workout because you're always upping the challenge and testing the dog's understanding. Plus once they're trained to it, you can send them racing through the house to their crate or running from one crate to another over a distance outside. I really think Oakley could benefit from this program and it can help you learn to have better training skills.

http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=1363


All of these suggestions are free for you to do or relatively cheap. I would suggest implementing these ideas for at least 2 months and then seeing where your at. With a lot of dogs, these suggestions will show dramatic improvement as long as you stick with it. If not, then you may want to consider behavioral drugs in combination with training. Reading this though, I really get the idea your dog will greatly benefit from more structured training and management and a better physical workout on a regular basis.
 

Doberluv

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#45
I'm sorry I'm so late to this thread. I barely have time to come on this forum at all lately. But I wanted to say how sorry I am you're going through so much trouble. You've had lots of good wisdom given to you. Aleron's post is really, really good. However, don't think that a lack of structure, too little exercise or training makes dogs bite. No. It's a bad temperament....pure and simple. Those things might help somewhat but you'll always have to manage this dog with a muzzle if he's around other people. It's just too dangerous. What if he got out or some freak accident happened where he really hurt or even killed someone? A child? It's just too dangerous. I would seriously consider euthanasia as a viable option. He can't be given to someone else to deal with. I, personally couldn't live with what you've been dealing with all this time. I wouldn't own a dog that bites people at all. I know it's got to be so hard and painful to think of putting him down but....Well, try what Aleron suggested, get a v-behaviorist and maybe....but he'll never be cured, just managed. (hopefully without a freak accident in that management) I'm so sorry. It's just more than anyone should have to deal with on top of everything else.
 
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#46
I second the suggestion of frosted window clings so he can't see out. If you're strapped for cash, taping parchment paper or wax paper to the windows does a good job too. If he's clawing at the windows, tape the paper to the outside of the pane.

And white noise if the sound of traffic gets him going. Keep a fan on, a radio playing, something like that. Anything to decrease the intensity of the stimulus.
 

Ignis

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#47
Totally agree on that! Only you can decide and only you know the best what would be the best option for you and for him.
 

Aleron

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#48
I'm sorry I'm so late to this thread. I barely have time to come on this forum at all lately. But I wanted to say how sorry I am you're going through so much trouble. You've had lots of good wisdom given to you. Aleron's post is really, really good. However, don't think that a lack of structure, too little exercise or training makes dogs bite. No. It's a bad temperament....pure and simple.
If only it were so simple!

Bites happen for all sorts of reasons. Biting in itself is a natural and normal dog behavior. All dogs can and will bite in the wrong circumstance, some dogs being far easier to push into biting than other. Most dogs who bite have specific things that trigger the bite such as territorial behavior, resource guarding, redirected aggression and fear. Many breeds of dogs were bred for jobs that required they be territorial and willing to not only bite humans but really fight with them if need be and not back down. A lot of breeds that were developed for protection or guarding work get themselves into trouble with pet owners for the very traits they were bred for. I can't tell you how many people I have run into over the years who have had GSDs who would bite guests coming into the house or yard. That's not bad temperament, it's not even an undesirable trait for the breed to have. However, with pet GSDs who aren't trained, contained and managed properly it becomes a serious problem pretty quickly.

Structure, exercise and training can certainly impact a dog's behavior. Just because a dog has bitten does not mean you throw your hands up and say "well this one has a bad temperament, better luck next time". Bites do not mean the dog is untrainable or unable to learn better behavior.
 

Paige

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#49
I am just here to offer support. I made a tough call and kept Bandit through his bite history, his aggression, his anxiety and all other bad behavior. It did get better for us... but if it didn't I would've put him down. Some times rehoming isn't an option.

You know in your gut what option is going to work. Take time to think it over and make sure you are comfortable with it. Whether you keep him, find him a better suited home or choose to put him to sleep it is going to take a lot of thought and effort. I am here for you if you ever want to talk.
 

Dagwall

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#50
Just thought I'd add if you were interested in taking some nosework classes FurGetMeNot has a wonderful nosework program. Heidi is awesome! They have a very nice set up that makes the class good for anxious/reactive dogs as well as all other dogs. It's quite possible to go through the entire class without him actually seeing another dog.
 

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