Doberman vs. GSD

Here's my take on what Mary said - and again, correct me if I'm wrong!

I don't think Dobermans are less dedicated or have less drive - they just have more of a sense of self preservation, they THINK things over before they obey.

Tell a non-thinking, blindly obedient dog to jump off a cliff to their deaths, and the dog will probably leap off, happy as a clam. A thinking dog (think Doberman) will look at you like you're nuts!

That is NOT to say GSDs don't think, PLEASE don't think that's what I'm trying to say!!!

The way I see it, the Doberman, being created as a personal bodyguard, understands that sometimes the handler is not making the right decision - they think for themselves in order to better do their job.

the gsd is more biddable than the dobe ~ the gsd is more biddable than a lot of breeds. i got bored with my gsd's.

Interesting.

I have a question about the Doberman's sense of self-preservation. If it's too strong and they're too independent-minded to take commands, wouldn't that make them difficult to manage as personal protectors? Confronting an aggressor is dangerous for the dog... I can understand a dog thinking through the consequences of a command before doing it, but too much thought leads to less action usually..

I just found those statements interesting because every Doberman I've met has been highly obedient and responsive to his/her master, very interested in pleasing their people. Very operant dogs in general, the ones I know love to experiment with training to see if something else will get a better response.. but they're very interested in cooperation with their handler. Maybe I got the wrong impression of the breed?

See, I've had the opposite experience. I've had an easier time getting Dobes to do what I'm asking than GSD's...granted there was no formal training going on, this was just management stuff in daycare. I have a feeling that the overabundance of BYB dogs kind of skewed my results though. But just judging from what I handled at that job, I would take a Dobe over a GSD. Except maybe for the screaming Dobes do...eish.

I think the phrase "self preservation" only goes so far with a dobe. When it comes to his/her OWN comfort or that of the person/persons they deem THEIRS to protect.........they DO put YOU first. IE.. an aggressor trying to harm you, you needing their help in an emergency, etc...

I think Sizzle might have meant "self preservation" in the sense of not wanting to be injured needlessly, cold, wet, etc...

And absolutely Dobes are obedient when trained. They just don't want the drills/practice run into the ground, they don't want you to order them to be uncomfortable...IE: Lay down in that mud puddle, Sit/Stay in the hot sun when there is shade 2 feet away...that sort of thing. They will GLADLY sit/stay as long as you want them to, but they may move 2 feet over to be comfy while doing so, LOL, still obeying..........just with a slight adjustment.

That is where the thinking/problem solving for themselves comes in

Apparently you've never heard the screaming a GSD does
:yikes:

Oh I have! But they didn't seem to keep it up for quite as long...or else the ones that were doing it didn't hit that "special" pitch...there's a reason I've lost some of my hearing and I'm not even 30 yet.

You are aboslutely right, Mary. GSD's are soldiers and that is exactly what I want. I dont have time to deal with a Dobe's "prissyness" as you put it. I've had a few a while back and trained many but most refused to lay on the cold floor, put their butts completely down on the grass, ect. GSD's do think, but they understand the chain of command, and TRUST ME their handler to protect them and not put them in harms way. I can tell any of my dogs to jump through a burning building, and they will do it.

GSD's are IMO more handler oriented. My dogs have to be right next to me at all times (makes training the heeling so much easier), since they where little puppies. When we are out hiking or something, they would run ahead and turn right back around, circle me to make sure I'm ok, then check the perimeters again. GSD's IMO cannot be compared to any other breed, but thats because I know what I want and the GSD covers every aspect.

Thanks to all who are participating in this discussion, I am learning so much!

I think a lot of GSDs are more object oriented, many of the ones I have meet work better if there is something to get, only dog I can think of that this doesn't hold true for would be Baron.

I know both my GSDs don't like to repeating things more than five times in a row. Baron will do it but he starts to get sloppy fast once we past five. Duke will invent new ways to do it if he doesn't just stop listening.

Baron and Duke don't feel the need to be right at my side. They want me to be around them though. Duke in particular doesn't feel the need to nudge me or lay down right next to me. Even as a puppy he hated to be picked up. Baron has moments where he likes to lean on me and be RIGHT there but most of the time he likes his space. Generally when I get a hello poke from both of them and they are off.

I agree that a GSD is less serius in public. I haven't ever noticed a differnce between Duke in public and Duke at home.

Sizzledog, you CAN find a good GSD, it's not that hard. You might not find one within 50 miles though, but I doubt you can find a good Dobe in that range all the time as well. It seems to me that there are more show type Dobies out there vs working dogs. There are plenty of working type GSD breeders around. If you don't want an American style dog, and you don't want a high drive over the top working line dog, then look at the German show lines. That is what Gunnar is and I think it's a nice blend of working ability and being able to lay around if that is what you are doing. He follows me everywhere I go and is never more than a few feet from me. He anticipates my moves, like in the morning, when I'm getting coffee and feeding the cat, he goes to the office and lays down, because he knows I'll be there momentarily, but he stays where he can watch me. When it's go time, he'll keep it up as long as you need him too, and if it's something he loves like playing ball, he'll outlast anyone. Climate wise- the GSD does well in the heat because of the double coat. Cold is no problem either, Gunnar loves the winter and his coat is so thick around his back legs you can't even scratch down to the skin.

I haven't had a lot of experience with Dobes, only 1 I know who is a real nice dog, has good obedience, but is a bit of a chicken when it comes to environment. In both heat and cold, he will shut down quickly. And some days, he just refuses to work, being a goofball when he's supposed to be serious. He doesn't pick up on new tasks as fast as Gunnar does. We've both been training at the same place for over a year together, and particularly when new obstacles are introduced on the agility course, Gunnar will learn the new object within a few tries, while the Dobie takes weeks to get comfortable with it. Some, he never gets, like the window jump. He can easily clear it but has a mental block when it comes to going over it.

Hmmm . . . I'm thinking maybe it has more to do with the owner's "style" than anything else, maybe?

All my Sheps - pure or mixed - have been completely owner-centric. They could give a flying flip about objects if there's a choice. They've been either right next to me or where they could see me at all times.

None of them would blindly take orders, and if they had a better way to accomplish something, they did it that way. If I asked them to do something they thought was ridiculous or pointless, they'd let me know, lol!

And, cute as Fila pups are, there is NOTHING any cuter than a GSD pup, lol!

I think its a hell of a lot easier to find a good GSD than a good doberman - there are very few doberman owners that work their dogs, thoroughly health test, AND are focusing on structure. While there are many GSD breeders that care little beyond the AKC show ring, there are MANY MANY GSD breeders that work, health test, don't breed all over the place, and have structurally correct dogs. To top it off, I could have a good GSD for well under 1000, and wouldn't have to wait 2 years. CAn't say the same for a doberman- there are not a ton of dobe breeders that show AND work beyond some basic obedience for those that are interested in it, and you'd be hard pressed to find a responsible breeder letting dobes go for under 1000.

Could someone please define what "blindly taking orders" means? I've yet to meet a dog that will take absolutely pointless, boring commands over and over, and I have worked with quite a variety of dogs, from sighthounds to Goldens to my own BCs.

I'm in agreement with Doberkim that it's really difficult to find good Dobermans. Maybe part of it is because I live out West where there aren't a lot of them, but I've been able to find decent GSD breeders within my state or neighboring states, and a pet puppy on average from one of them isn't going to run you $2000. Though I suppose it depends on what kind of GSD you're looking for - I want to see dogs that work, either in sports like Schutzhund or as police service/SAR/assistance dogs. I want good structure but I don't particularly care about wins in the ring. Maybe it's easier for me to find a GSD because I don't need a super high-drive sport dog.

IME - I find Dobes much more "intense" than GSDs. Intense is what I think of when I picture a Dobe. Hard.
To me, its almost like they're on guard at all times... which I'm not saying is a bad thing! With the GSDs I've known, they appear to act more relaxed and at times more social with new people (appear more relaxed, but are probably still on guard as well).

Ok, I understand now, lol. I was a bit confused at first.

Reminds me of a documentary called "war dogs". It was about the soldiers and their dogs during the Vietnam war. There was a soldier and his dog partner walking through the woods. After a little while the dog stopped right in his tracks. The soldier kept telling his dog to move forward, but the dog refused, disobeying his command. So the soldier went ahead of the dog and as soon as he got 2 steps ahead the dog jumped in front of him and wouldn't let him go any further. The soldier closely examined the ground in front of him and discovered a trip line that led to a deadly bomb. This dog was a GSD, and if it wasn't for the dog disobeying its command, they both would have died that day. It made the hair on my back raise on end when I heard that story.

Maybe it is true that most GSDs aren't that way and do everything they are told, but this story kinda stuck out in my mind. I like both breeds. Both are amazing.

Reggin, first there are always exceptions to every story about every breed of dog. So someone will always have a story of any breed to say "Well, I knew of a time when... "

Second, a highly trained dog (such as those used by the military, etc) are ALWAYS exceptions for the most part to anything, because those are not dogs that most people want to live with.

I've never been around a lot of Dobes, but the few I've had in my training classes/or here for grooming have been silly, fun dogs to work with.

My sister has 2 Shepherds, a 3 year old female and a 12 week old male. Her husband is a police officer and their female is a drug detection dog for the police force where they live (Teller County). I believe they will also be training the male for this later on. Both are very sweet dogs, though her female is a bit more aloof and shy with strangers. The male is very goofy, but he's also pretty young too. They are both big velcro dogs, she can't even stand up without both of them doing the same and watching her intently. "Whacha doing mom? Need help with anything?" They are obsessed with her every move.

They are great with their two kids, even though the female is a police dog, though Teller County's dog training program is more geared towards good working dogs AND family dogs. Teller County's police dogs aren't nearly as aggressive as most (I should say ALL) military dogs and most of the officers of Teller county bring their dogs home at night and they live as family dogs off-duty.

Dobes are in the family, but personally I have no experience owning one ever. I feel they are a smaller boned dog, not for real intense work, their necks look like they might break easily if hit hard enough?'

GSD's from European countries with show n working lines have both beauty, and hard working abilities. Heavier boned East Shepherds with much more nervous type of drive is used alot for narcotic and bomb detecting work.

West lines I breed for are good also, but more sounder nerves, great search n rescue dogs and super companions. They bond so closely to one or the family, their r natural protectors not just to bark, but to protect!!

Yes, coats are heavier than Dobes but all dogs shed, even non shedders drop some hair, I can deal with that brushing daily 15 minutes helps alot and giving good supplements for skin n coats. I think the importing of Shepherds than American are healthier, easier to train, more close to people, yet u can show at Seiger shows and have fun, train for Shutzhund Sport that kinda comes natural for most.

A fun dog to own, breed, and train. I have had many varieties of dogs and turned to the West German Shepherd. Super temperments, never had a mean one and imported alot of them, as puppies and raised them, also as year olds and older.

wow I have learned alot from this thread.
I'm glad to cause I am looking into adopting a GSD and hopefully getting a puppy GSD in the future, if it comes down to it. I would also like a Lab pup, but thats off topic.

I have met MAYBE 2 Dobes and one I met was a male and he was the funniest dog ever but very serious when need be.
As far as GSD goes, I've met and been around one and he is a sweetheart. The lady that has him has 3 kids and that GSD follows her 2 sons around like his life depends on it and is the most loyal dog I have EVER met.
I dont think I would own a Dobe but they are stunning dogs in all aspect of the word.
GSD I would love to own and they are also stunning dogs.

I will continue to keep up with this thread since I am getting tons of info off of it as well.