Breeds affected by MDR1 mutant gene
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Actually we can know. I am hoping to find out in for my thesis 
Some of the older LHW from our club were actually bought from Walter, none have tested positive. Plus we have all of Walters records (take that at face value) Regular whippets DO carry a long haired gene. So do many other breeds. Its polygenetic and recesive so can hide for a long time in a large population. Everyone agrees that whippets used to come in three coat types. The wire hair was lost because its a dominant trait and can't hide in the genome. Shelties have a double coat along with the length, LHW never show up with a double coat, putting the idea of sheltie as a contributor as an unlikely source.
Personally I don't care if something was mixed in. BUt I find it amusing that so many people are adamant that Walter HAD to mix things in. Genetically its not at all unreasonable to do what he did and NOT mix things in.
Some of the older LHW from our club were actually bought from Walter, none have tested positive. Plus we have all of Walters records (take that at face value) Regular whippets DO carry a long haired gene. So do many other breeds. Its polygenetic and recesive so can hide for a long time in a large population. Everyone agrees that whippets used to come in three coat types. The wire hair was lost because its a dominant trait and can't hide in the genome. Shelties have a double coat along with the length, LHW never show up with a double coat, putting the idea of sheltie as a contributor as an unlikely source.Personally I don't care if something was mixed in. BUt I find it amusing that so many people are adamant that Walter HAD to mix things in. Genetically its not at all unreasonable to do what he did and NOT mix things in.
What is too bad is that it wasn't possible (? when did the tests come out) to test/verify the paternity of each litter as he worked on the project. It would have been a nice backup to be able to prove each puppy was from registered parents, and not a whoopsie. Maybe the regular whippet club wouldn't have freaked out so badly then. Oh well.
I think they are nice dogs. If I ever get a whippet, it will be a LHW because I like a thicker skinned dog. Silkens are nice dogs too and I like them, but they aren't whippets.
ETA: Is there any kind of database where MDR1 test results are maintained? sort of like OFA? Because folks are also claiming that no LHW carrying the MDR1 gene is an outright lie. That doesn't make sense to me, as there is nothing to be gained from lying about it. Oh well.
Not that is available to the public (still checking on that), but WSU created the test and provides the results, so I'm assuming they're the ones for now ...
WSU
Breeds of dogs affected with the mutant MDR1 gene. Information from the VCPL at Washington State University.
and research done by UC Davis
UC Davis Veterinary Genetics Laboratory
WSU
Breeds of dogs affected with the mutant MDR1 gene. Information from the VCPL at Washington State University.
and research done by UC Davis
UC Davis Veterinary Genetics Laboratory
No one is saying no 'LHW' has tested postive. But so far no LHW from straight whippet lines has tested positive. The 'other' LHW association that registers LHW openly acknowledges that they have crossed other things in. Once again, doesn't matter so much.. I just get annoyed when people assume that all registred long haired whippets come from the same 'place'. (not directed at anyone, its just something I come across often)
http://home.ica.net/~westwood//images/crmagarticle.pdf
an older article but one that talks about the two different registries on page 27.
I have never seen the issue with creating new breeds or changing new breeds. But its just that this seems to be such a 'black and white' issue to most (but not all anymore) whippet breeders.
If anyone is interested I have pics of coated whippets from the turn of the century I can put on my photobucket and post.
http://home.ica.net/~westwood//images/crmagarticle.pdf
an older article but one that talks about the two different registries on page 27.
I have never seen the issue with creating new breeds or changing new breeds. But its just that this seems to be such a 'black and white' issue to most (but not all anymore) whippet breeders.
If anyone is interested I have pics of coated whippets from the turn of the century I can put on my photobucket and post.
That would be fabulous! I posted about the club you're a part of and the international club that openly mixes whippets with other breeds to make percentage whippets, but they all are adamant that Walter's long haired dogs are all mixes, and that he is the sole reason so many silkens now carry the MDR1 gene. Sigh.
I love historical pictures of dogs. I'd like to see the pics, too.
I didn't know that two different groups were using the name LHW for different breeding stock until Romy posted about them on the borzoi boards. I would imagine the use of the same name creates confusion for researchers and for people who are curious about the dogs. I also didn't realize that LHWs had a single coat. Do they need to wear coats in the winter like the smooth coated dogs do?
I think the LHWs, percentage whippets, and silkens are all cute little dogs, and I would look into getting one (not sure which breed or type) if I were going to downsize from a borzoi.
I didn't know that two different groups were using the name LHW for different breeding stock until Romy posted about them on the borzoi boards. I would imagine the use of the same name creates confusion for researchers and for people who are curious about the dogs. I also didn't realize that LHWs had a single coat. Do they need to wear coats in the winter like the smooth coated dogs do?
I think the LHWs, percentage whippets, and silkens are all cute little dogs, and I would look into getting one (not sure which breed or type) if I were going to downsize from a borzoi.
Hey all,
Yes maybe I joined this forum just to post in this thread, haha. I'm a member of the International Longhaired Whippet Club and I just wanted to clear a few things up. A lot of the LWA people won't admit Walter Wheeler bred in sheltie to get longhaired whippets, saying instead that a recessive longhaired gene "popped up". That would be nice but from a genetic and medical standpoint it's extremely unlikely. The ILWC accepts that the first longhairs were probably sheltie x whippet crosses, and just to clear things up we don't breed our longhairs to other breeds willy-nilly to get percentage whippets. There's a very small gene pool and, especially with some LWA people, health problems have been popping up. We are outcrossing longhairs to smooth AKC whippets for more genetic diversity as well as type and health - anything with any other breed in it is not considered a longhaired whippet.
Anyway, it's unfortunate that the shelties Wheeler used passed MDR1 on to longhairs and silkens, now that we know about it though we do testing on all our dogs and breed carefully.
Yes maybe I joined this forum just to post in this thread, haha. I'm a member of the International Longhaired Whippet Club and I just wanted to clear a few things up. A lot of the LWA people won't admit Walter Wheeler bred in sheltie to get longhaired whippets, saying instead that a recessive longhaired gene "popped up". That would be nice but from a genetic and medical standpoint it's extremely unlikely. The ILWC accepts that the first longhairs were probably sheltie x whippet crosses, and just to clear things up we don't breed our longhairs to other breeds willy-nilly to get percentage whippets.
There's a very small gene pool and, especially with some LWA people, health problems have been popping up. We are outcrossing longhairs to smooth AKC whippets for more genetic diversity as well as type and health - anything with any other breed in it is not considered a longhaired whippet.Anyway, it's unfortunate that the shelties Wheeler used passed MDR1 on to longhairs and silkens, now that we know about it though we do testing on all our dogs and breed carefully.
I don't think anyone said they crossed them willy nilly...
But as there long haired rotties and long haired dals that pop up... and that the long haired gene has been conculsivly found in greyhounds.. why is it impossible for it to be brought out with inbreeding?
As I say I don't care if he did or not. But as no LHW ever shows up with a double coat its unlikley what was added (if somethign was added) was sheltie. I breed JRTs which are more about type than 'pure bred' But it annoys me to no end the people who say that there are no long haired genes in smooth dog lines... when there patently is.
But as there long haired rotties and long haired dals that pop up... and that the long haired gene has been conculsivly found in greyhounds.. why is it impossible for it to be brought out with inbreeding?
As I say I don't care if he did or not. But as no LHW ever shows up with a double coat its unlikley what was added (if somethign was added) was sheltie. I breed JRTs which are more about type than 'pure bred' But it annoys me to no end the people who say that there are no long haired genes in smooth dog lines... when there patently is.