CM gets bitten... again (vid included)

Emily

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I would euthanize and move on to the next. Eventually one will find a dog worth owning for 15 or so years.
I'm curious... if I took one of your bombproof dogs and killed it because it lacked drive, how would that sit with you? Dogs without drive aren't "worth" much to me.

ETA: Y'all know this is just a theoretical and I would never kill a dog because it didn't tug, right? :rofl1:
 

AdrianneIsabel

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My god, what a sad, sad take on things. My dog's food is her's, she needs it to live and as her owner I'm obligated to provide her with it. She does let me take it (and anything else she has) because she trusts me, not because I own it. My ego and my imaginary "rights" have nothing to do with things.

The question of whether to PTS a dog shouldn't be one of "worth." It should be a choice based on consideration of all the complicated factors in the dog's life and the handler's life that either do or do not make the dog manageable and retrainable. Again, not because we're making excuses, but because it matters.

Deeming the dog "worthless" is so vindictive and childish.

Have you ever worked with dogs in a professional capacity, rubygirl?

ETA: I'm willing to bet that there are many dogs with less that rock solid temperaments that are worth their weight in gold to their owners. ;) Lucky for them.
Great post. Lemur says thank you. :)
 
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But it happened to the original owners several times. Did they punch and kick? He did not punch or slap the dog in the face btw- he used his fingers and jabbed her neck.
Look, I don't advocate Cesar Milan. I don't care what he does. He is the one that wants to keep aggressive dogs alive and rehabilitate them or whatever.
I wouldn't do it. I would euthanize and move on to the next. Eventually one will find a dog worth owning for 15 or so years.
Do we know what they did do? I know someone said in the full episode they talked of hitting her with a broom? I didnt see it so dont know. ALl I do know is in this video, she did not go straight to biting. She gave plenty of warnings.
 
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I don't tolerate s***. Maybe I would if I didn't have kids (my oldest is 7) but as for right now I'm very sensitive about the dogs I allow into my home.
The dog I have right now (aside from some puppy mouthing- she is 15 months) is bomb proof. My kids can climb on her, sit on her, grab her flews and take things out of her mouth.
wow.

Honestly? Not being malicious -- but frankly I wouldn't allow kids who did that around my dogs. I don't allow it and if I see it happening to someone else's dog I step in. There's no reason for a dog to die because someone hasn't taught their kids to have respect for animals -- or their own safety.

My cousin's four year old girl stomped Kharma's foot (on purpose -- I saw it since I never allowed her near the dogs if I wasn't present). I never let her come near any of mine again. Ever. Her mother's not allowed around them either, for that matter.
 

rubygirl

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WOW.
Wow.


So, since you like ridiculous examples, a kid who kills himself over internet bullying... too sensitive and not worth anything? A POS?
You didnt like my comparison between a dog and a human so don't do the same thing. A dog is a DOG. A dogs life has little value in comparison to my family.
People will divorce because my "husband didn't like my dogs". People feed their dogs Orijen but yet their kids are dressed in rags. People spend insane amounts of money on their pets when their are (oh yes I'm going there) starving kids in Africa or bomb victims in the Middle East. People spend their time talking going to dog flyball compititions and forget their child's soccer game.
I'm not saying any of you do the above but what I'm say is that people's perceptions and priorities are skewed in this society.
Put down the man biters and move on to the dogs that aren't dangerous to their families and to the general public.
I AM permitted to have opinions, yes? You can counter my opinions and that is fine but it won't make a difference in how I think (all my cave woman ways lol).
I don't mind being logical on a very primal level. My kids are my life. Anything threatens them and they are dead.
 

rubygirl

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wow.

Honestly? Not being malicious -- but frankly I wouldn't allow kids who did that around my dogs. I don't allow it and if I see it happening to someone else's dog I step in. There's no reason for a dog to die because someone hasn't taught their kids to have respect for animals -- or their own safety.

My cousin's four year old girl stomped Kharma's foot (on purpose -- I saw it since I never allowed her near the dogs if I wasn't present). I never let her come near any of mine again. Ever. Her mother's not allowed around them either, for that matter.
Yea maybe you wanna quote the rest of it... :rolleyes:
 

rubygirl

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Do we know what they did do? I know someone said in the full episode they talked of hitting her with a broom? I didnt see it so dont know. ALl I do know is in this video, she did not go straight to biting. She gave plenty of warnings.
Are you sure it was hitting her.... are you sure it wasn't... nothing. :rofl1: sorry I couldn't help myself.
 

rubygirl

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I'm curious... if I took one of your bombproof dogs and killed it because it lacked drive, how would that sit with you? Dogs without drive aren't "worth" much to me.

ETA: Y'all know this is just a theoretical and I would never kill a dog because it didn't tug, right? :rofl1:
Well if you had it then it wouldn't be mine and would be no skin off of my a**.
As long as death is swift and there is no suffering...
 

Doberluv

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What education do you have?
I have 13 years of being a dog owner, 7 years of rescuing/fostering (around 220 dogs in total), and I have been asked to deal with dogs behaviours outside my home as well. I also groom, and do canine dental scaling.
Is that enough for you?
I don't tolerate s***. Maybe I would if I didn't have kids (my oldest is 7) but as for right now I'm very sensitive about the dogs I allow into my home.
The dog I have right now (aside from some puppy mouthing- she is 15 months) is bomb proof. My kids can climb on her, sit on her, grab her flews and take things out of her mouth. She will surrender raw meat to my kids (took no additional training for her to do it). She will allow everything/anything.
And I don't even trust HER completely. I always supervise. I still don't allow the kids around her when she's eating. She doesn't get chews or treats when the kids are around, their play gets too rough- I end that.
If she EVER bit me my children, my husband or close friends that she is accustomed to hard enough to draw blood-- she would be taken to the vet within the hour and euthanized.
I don't mean accidental bites, I don't mean she was playing and thought my hand was a tug; I mean an aggressive (yes even food aggressive) bite or attack (the dog in this video attacked he didn't bite).
I have owned dogs for 53 years and trained my own dogs since I was around 9 or 10. I don't have a PhD in behavior, but I took 2 years of animal behavior in high school and 2 in college. I spent an additional 8 or 9 years researching, studying for 10 - 12 + hours a day, rather obsessively, some seminars and help from mentors...the science of behavior and current behaviorists' methods and ideas etc, etc. It's a passion of mine and so I have really put a lot of time into it. I tend to do things that way when I get passionate about them. Ask my kids when I was practicing the piano for a wedding. I drove them nuts, practicing one complicated line over and over again for hours. I didn't want to blow it and I spent 12 hours at least a day getting it down pat...lots of new music. I pulled it off, but wrecked my wrists doing it...bad tendinitis. I have also, up until recently when I moved, trained professionally as a behavior specialist/consultant. It's how I made my living. I have worked heavily with dogs that have "aggression" issues...of various types along with other kinds of problems that owners call me for besides regular obedience training. Although I have taken some agility with my Doberman, that is something I would not be equipped to teach. I don't know enough about it.

At any rate, this is not a competition. There are so many people, even here on Chaz who have lots of ideas that never occurred to me, who have more experience with difficult dogs than I. There is ALWAYS something more to learn and experience, no matter how much someone already has done. And I certainly haven't done close to what a lot of people have. Those are generally the people I go to for information and advice. The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know. :eek:
 

Beanie

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You didnt like my comparison between a dog and a human so don't do the same thing.
No, I didn't like it, but YOU are the one who used the comparison; therefore I used the same kind of comparison back to you. In other words, I am speaking your language. You drew a parallel which means you think it is a valid parallel. I don't believe it's a valid parallel but because you do and I am speaking to you about your thought process I am continuing the parallel.

I suppose it's no longer fair if somebody turns the tables on you though.
 
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She wasn't pushed that bloody hard.
Yes, she was. What a dog perceives as aggression and being pushed hard is different than what a human perceives as aggression and being pushed hard. Since you're so adamant that dogs aren't people, I would think you'd be aware of that.
 

Doberluv

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My god, what a sad, sad take on things. My dog's food is her's, she needs it to live and as her owner I'm obligated to provide her with it. She does let me take it (and anything else she has) because she trusts me, not because I own it. My ego and my imaginary "rights" have nothing to do with things.

The question of whether to PTS a dog shouldn't be one of "worth." It should be a choice based on consideration of all the complicated factors in the dog's life and the handler's life that either do or do not make the dog manageable and retrainable. Again, not because we're making excuses, but because it matters.

Deeming the dog "worthless" is so vindictive and childish.

Have you ever worked with dogs in a professional capacity, rubygirl?

ETA: I'm willing to bet that there are many dogs with less that rock solid temperaments that are worth their weight in gold to their owners. ;) Lucky for them.

:hail::hail::hail:
 

rubygirl

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So, essentially, if it's not your dog, you don't really give a d@mn what happens to it? As long as it's quick?
Yes. As long as death is immediate. I give a **** what is happening to it: I don't want it to be abused, neglected, starved etc.
I love dog but I don't prioritize her over real issues taking place in this world.
I love my dog and while she is in my care she gets the best of everything- diet, vet care, toys, we are going to be getting her insured (Canadian vet care is much higher then the states as far as I've seen/heard of).
If I didn't love my dog I wouldn't join a forum for dogs ;)
I just don't believe the "all creatures big and small are equals" mantra.
 
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Yes. As long as death is immediate. I give a **** what is happening to it: I don't want it to be abused, neglected, starved etc.
I love dog but I don't prioritize her over real issues taking place in this world.
I love my dog and while she is in my care she gets the best of everything- diet, vet care, toys, we are going to be getting her insured (Canadian vet care is much higher then the states as far as I've seen/heard of).
If I didn't love my dog I wouldn't join a forum for dogs ;)
I just don't believe the "all creatures big and small are equals" mantra.
Neither do I.

There are a lot of people I'd throw in front of a speeding car to save my dogs.
 
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This has nothing to do with dogs being seen as equals, I certainly dont feel that way.

It has to do with responsibility. It has to do with recognizing in THIS situation, the dog was pushed to bite. She most likely would be a fairly easy rehab.
 

rubygirl

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I have owned dogs for 53 years and trained my own dogs since I was around 9 or 10. I don't have a PhD in behavior, but I took 2 years of animal behavior in high school and 2 in college. I spent an additional 8 or 9 years researching, studying for 10 - 12 + hours a day, rather obsessively, some seminars and help from mentors...the science of behavior and current behaviorists' methods and ideas etc, etc. It's a passion of mine and so I have really put a lot of time into it. I tend to do things that way when I get passionate about them. Ask my kids when I was practicing the piano for a wedding. I drove them nuts, practicing one complicated line over and over again for hours. I didn't want to blow it and I spent 12 hours at least a day getting it down pat...lots of new music. I pulled it off, but wrecked my wrists doing it...bad tendinitis. I have also, up until recently when I moved, trained professionally as a behavior specialist/consultant. It's how I made my living. I have worked heavily with dogs that have "aggression" issues...of various types along with other kinds of problems that owners call me for besides regular obedience training. Although I have taken some agility with my Doberman, that is something I would not be equipped to teach. I don't know enough about it.

At any rate, this is not a competition. There are so many people, even here on Chaz who have lots of ideas that never occurred to me, who have more experience with difficult dogs than I. There is ALWAYS something more to learn and experience, no matter how much someone already has done. And I certainly haven't done close to what a lot of people have. Those are generally the people I go to for information and advice. The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know. :eek:
It is a competition apparently... I can almost guarantee you asked me what education I had so that you could list off all of your credentials which made you look more then a little pompous. You win! :D
I can see that the dog was distressed, yes. I can see that Cesar exacerbated the animals distress, yes. Did the dog react appropriately, no (explanation: I have seen dogs go through much more stress then this and never react this way).
Those are my opinions. I have validated your claim. I have stated how I feel/what I think. I now have nothing more to add. I digress.
 

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