Head you win, Tails you lose

That's true of tail docking because it is done very early .... but ear cropping is done much later than 3 days old.

However, the choice I referred to is to simply choose breeds in which docking/cropping is not part of the breed standard. Others make different choices, but that's my personal choice. In making that choice, saying that one "can't go with a good breeder" does not apply.

"Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
The problem with that is then you can't go with a good breeder. At 3 days old I can't tell what is going to be a show prospect and what isn't. I can't tell at 3 days what their personalities will be like to say "ok that one is will be perfect for this person so no docking" or "that one will never hunt so it doesn't need to be done" etc etc"

Also, in Rottweilers, it is considered unethical to only dock part of a litter. One either chooses to dock the whole litter or none at all. If you are a breeder that is a member of some of the breed clubs, you must follow their Code Of Ethics. If you choose to not dock, that litter has to be listed as an undocked litter(as in listing your litter with that particular breed club).

I have heard that if you purchase a puppy from Europe and you request that your puppy be docked, then you have to purchase the whole litter, docked. Don't know if this is fact, but it is something I heard.

If it's banned, how is it possible for someone overseas to purchase a docked puppy/litter.... because isn't it, well, banned to dock even if the puppy will be leaving the country? Just moved to Europe and I guess I don't fully know the laws, LOL, maybe I need to get in touch with someone with a docked/cropped breed and ask.

If you are importing from a country that doesnt crop or dock you can have it done when the pup gets here. Its harder on them, but it can ben done under anistetic.

I also just avoid breeds that require docking and cropping. Incidentally, I also never circumcised my boys--I don't like the way it is done. But I have circumcised other people's boys, because I feel the parents have the right to decide. My view with dogs is the same.

I agree with this. I didn't have Jordon circumcised either (sorry for sharing Jordon), but what other parents choose to do is their right. Same with dogs. I would never dock or crop a dog so I simply will never do it to my own puppy. I may one day decide on a dobie but will find a breeder who will respect my choice not to put a puppy through this cosmetic procedure.

I have lots of posted puppies in class, many clean, well done docks and crops, just as many butcher jobs...I have never once made an owner aware of my personal feelings on the matter unless asked prior to a late crop.

It's a really tough issue, especially on the breeders of typically cropped/docked breeds...I don't envy your decision but believe in your right to those decisions.

GoldenRetriever>>I was referring to the below post.... You can't just get a pet quality dog that isnt' docked from a good breeder.

To clarify Dekka, my line of thought on a "pet quality" dog was for cropping. I understand that docking has to be done very early in life, and that there's no way you could tell pet quality vs. show that early.

I would choose a different breed if I was concerned about either being done to my dog.

Okay, here's a question to throw out. If you had a docked breed with a color DQ, would you still dock mismarked puppies? (I'm thinking specifically of whitelies in Pems here.) I mean, they're not going to be shown, regardless.

Dunno what I owuld do- this is why I don't have docked or cropped breeds!

Well if I had a JRT with colour issues it might still hunt. (the quarry doesn't care if the dog has brindle markings, is a dilute, or is less than 51% white)

^^^ agreed.

True, but again, I was thinking Pems- or say, double merle Aussies, or yellow (ay) Aussies.

Anyone I know who breeds dogs that get docked just do the litter regardless. Tiny spot of white on a toe makes a cocker pet quality. Most breeders still would like their dogs as close to standard as possible as their name is going to be on it.

Ummmm, even if the dog does have a serious fault that causes him to become pet quality, I still think he/she should be cropped and/or docked, depending on what the breed standard calls for. Breeders fallow a written standard that states whether or not a breed should have such things done, and its their job to fallow it....

Also with some breeds. Dobermans for instance, it can be much harder to place a un croped dog, if you get a breeder return for whatever reason. Depending on your area.

And yes. Breeders should fallow the standard.

While I would not take away others' rights to do it, I personally would prefer to not have a dog docked and would not buy from a breeder who insisted the I crop. I would not feel comfortable putting my pup through surgery simply to follow a breed standard. I'm a rebel like that

I actually like the look of many of the cropped dogs except for bully breeds. I just do not care for cropped bully breeds at all.....

thats what i think