Stubborn and Lazy

Is pretty much how i describe Sophie too most people..

She is also the dog that runs away if she gets out the front unsupervised for even a second!
It has happened 3 times since I adopted her in September 2010 :/

My main problem is, she is really bad at coming back to me if we are out the front or at other peoples houses.
She even ran under a friends car once, as they were pulling out of the driveway because she didn't want to go back inside!

Inside, she has manners and waits for her food and stuff without being asked. But, I need too be able to tell her to stay and have her listen.

She hasn't had any training in the past from what I can tell and isn't interested in treats or anything, so I have no idea what too do :/

Sounds like you would both benefit from a basic dog training class

I'd look into a good positive reinforcement training class for her and not letting her off leash or anywhere near the door unless she's restrained until you can get her trained.

Do you scold her when she finally comes back or you catch her?

What kind of food are you offering her? How often is she fed meals? Does she play with toys?

A good training class is the place to start.

When she does come back I just let her go back inside by herself and ignore her. She goes straight to her bed.

She is fed once in the morning, around 7am and again at 6pm. When I've tried to train her I offered her cooked chicken and kangaroo initially. But then tried store brought treats, bacon!, and alls sorts of human foods.. in the hope that "if we are eating it, she will want some"

With Taj, I am giving him treats and praise or praise and his toy and he has learnt sit, shake and lay down in a little under 2 weeks..

My problem isn't the training.. Its training HER

She has never been interested in toys and I have tried praise and treats :/

How do training classes work if the dog isn't interested in any sort of reward?

All dogs want something, even if it's to be left alone to go back to sleep on the couch. The trick is to figure out what the dog wants and figure out how to give her access to that on your conditions. This is one reason why some dogs are harder to train than others: it's harder to control their rewards. You might find Susan Garrett's books/dvds to be helpful on that front.

What kind of treats are you offering? Is she fed on a schedule or is she free fed? Putting her meals on a schedule instead of kibble always being available is a good way to get her more interested in food you have to offer if there isn't an alternative always available. Also, try upping the value of the treats. A dry biscuit is a poor substitute for the great outdoors, but smoked sausage might be another matter entirely.

Edit: I also think you need to stop blaming the dog. Labeling her as "stubborn" "lazy" and "uninterested" is unhelpful. You have the great big primape brain and the opposable thumbs. Use them.

Did you even read my second post, Raegan?

Just for your information, every trainer I have spoken to has actually wanted to know if she is stubborn, lazy and uninterested, so I figured if anyone would be able to give informed ideas they would need too know that info too.

A good trainer will be able to make it work, or recommend something that will work (private training, for example).

I'm very suprised that other trainers wanted to call your dog "stubborn." I've known a lot of trainers and had a lot of conversations about that word in particular, and all the trainers I've met HATE the word stubborn.

Find better trainers. Those are anthropomorphic qualities. Any good trainer will know better. You might want to skip a meal, and use those calories to train. Food is only rewarding if you are hungry.. (some dogs are hungry all the time). Also, you can make her work for her meals. Use her meals for training.

Have you tried playing recall games with her? Many dogs enjoy learning more if you can turn it into a game...

With Watson we sometimes play a game where he gets to run back and forth between me and my boyfriend as we alternately call him. Or you can have a person hold the dog and start the recall at the end of the leash and get the dogs attention by making it a game of catch when you run from the dog and then let her catch you.

Agreed find better trainers, any 'trainer' that blames and labels the dog because they can't find or know how to use motivators and methods that will work, is worth avoiding at all costs. And labeling a dog puts the onus on the dog and not on the people. In short it is a cop out.

Door busting 101.Practice sit and stay with the dog in a hallway where the only way out is past you. High reward and praise for even the littlest amount of effort on the dog's part. Do daily several times. While this is going on leash the rest of the time inside if your door has much traffic by family. Door does not open until dog is in a sit stay...and remains that way while the door inches open and is not allowed to go out until released. Every single time, no matter what no matter who is going in or out. Plan ahead, it may take you 10 minutes to get out the door. Everyone must be on board with this. Do not hold dog by the collar, but have a short leash so they can't "win" in the meantime obedience practice daily including with long lines for recall..long walks leashed where you work on heel, and sit when cars approach.. Play games and make it fun, we did hide and seek with however finds me first gets a bite of burger. If you know another dog that is trained, set up training dates, they learn quick by observing. Freedom is earned, not given...make the dog earn it, it wiill be a pia in the beginning but oh so worth it in the end. You will have to be diligent and consistent.

Don't let people hold the dog by the collar...that gives the message that unless you are holding them they can get away...let them come to the end of the short leash and find out for themselves that even at a distance you are in control. IT took me forever to convince the people in my family to stop that with Pepper. She learned the only way she was going to get out the door is if she controlled herself and remained sitting. Her butt came up, the door shut. You have to be very very very patient. They will learn faster than you think.

How does she feel about being petted?

We phased out treats when training our dog for the most part. He likes them and still gets them once in a while, I just don't always have one handy when I need to reinforce something.

In his case, he adores ear rubs. Like, they make his eyes roll up in his head with delight. Another way of being touched that is really appealing to a lot of dogs is a chest scratch, right between the front legs. Most dogs cannot reach that area to scratch, and it feels awesome to them when we do it for them.

Anyway, I just began reserving those specific kinds of touching that he loved for training rewards. Administered with a super squeaky happy voice, and it's very reinforcing.

Another idea for a reward is a special toy. Does she have any specific toy or kind of toy she loves? If not, is there one she simply likes? If so you can build her drive for a certain toy to the point where she does love it and it becomes a reward. That's generally done by having very short, very fun play sessions with her. She can only have access to the special toy during these sessions. Get her as riled up and into the toy as possible, and when she's most focused on it, and wanting it as badly as she is going to, you put it away. That way the game ends with her still wanting it. If you do this several times in a row with the same toy she should end up wanting it more and more each time. It does take a little time to build up though, and you don't want to have play sessions too often with the special toy at first or it will get boring (once or twice a day while building drive is probably fine, though someone with more experience will hopefully chime in).

Edit: And agreed with everyone else about finding a really good trainer who will work with your dog. A good trainer will have a lot of different methods for motivating dogs outside of food. Our obedience trainer owned Scottish terriers, and had them all certified through therapy dog international. Her old female was the very first scotty ever certified through them, they're sort of the poster child breed for "stubborn" dogs. lol She also has the distinction of training a basset hound to successfully compete in agility. The dog was slow, but she was really accurate.

All dogs have motivators, it's about finding them.

Now my dog is fairly easy in that she loves food and loves tennis balls. But I use other motivators too. Sometimes they're a little weird and unconventional but they WORK. Mia will go all out working for a piece of paper or an empty paper towel tube. She loves to chew and destroy things but isn't allowed to just shred paper. So I've found that she will work for the opportunity to shred something. So there's one example of turning a 'bad' behavior around and using it to your advantage. And since I've been actively giving her things to shred, she seems to be less apt to destroy things she's not supposed to.

Another motivator for her that works well is just the release. She loves to run. So often I'll have her do something and her reward is to run around screaming like she likes to. We make it a game.

Just a couple examples of how to look at the reward a little less conventionally. It doesn't have to be just treats and praise or toys. There has to be something your dog likes. Find whatever that is and use it to your advantage.

Sometimes you also need to build your dog's value and drive for a reward.

My dog never even used to notice if I put a piece of steak under her nose, but after building her drive for food you'd never guess it.

If she eats her meals each day, she does have some food drive.

Are you in Victoria? If so, I can recommend quite a number of great trainers who will definitely not tell you your dog is just "stubborn and lazy".

Laurelin, my dog loves cardboard paper towel tubes too! He values them above almost any food treat.

Kaylee, try training Sophie's recall using games. For example, fill a plastic bag with her morning breakfast kibble. Let Sophie smell the bag, then start dancing backwards while saying, "Come here, Sophie!" in a high-pitched, enthusiastic voice. Praise her and provide a bit of kibble if she advances at all. If she doesn't, let her sniff the bag again, and repeat.

If she's not interested in the food then she's probably being fed too much and hasn't learned to value it. My Sheltie didn't care about treats at all when I first brought him home. Now that he knows that his access to food is limited he will absolutely anything I say for a single piece of kibble. I'm not saying to starve your dog - just use their regular breakfast / dinner as if they were "treats".

There's no such thing as a dog that's stubborn and lazy. Dogs learn by a fairly simple positive reinforcement system. By providing affection, feeding her, and etc. when she's displaying "bad" behaviors you have positively reinforced these behaviors. She has to learn that attention, affection, food, and toys are only provided when she acts "good", i.e. displays behaviors that you want to reinforce.