Pure bred APBT? pics.

colliewog

Collies&Terriers, Oh My!
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#21
Add to that the fact that the 'red nose' and 'blue nose' may not be true dilution, but just incorrectly colored noses on normal (non-dilute) dogs, i.e. "dudley" nose or something similar. Just tossing that out there - only color genetics I know 100% is Collies and we don't have those issues. ;)
 

monkeys23

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#22
Someone telling you that one parent was a "pure bred" blue nose and one was red nose is a huge red flag that they were a disreputable breeder. Color doesn't mean a **** thing and there are very few real APBT that are blue. I can count on one hand the number of blue "real" APBT's with really nice peds I've seen and still have fingers left over...
Most blue "APBT"s are just Am Bullies registered with hung papers. Am Bully lines are distinct enough and are getting well enough established that the reputable people have started their own registries. Many not-reputable breeders still try passing their Am Bullies off as APBT's unfortunately though.

Honestly, odds are that she's an Am Bully. But who cares what the hell she is, just spay her and love her for her whole life. And next time go to a shelter if thats what you want.

I hope she's been vetted out since you brought her home. That tummy looks wormy to me.

Enroll in a puppy class if you aren't sure how to teach a puppy manners. THey don't really have any concept of what is acceptable and they are babies, so they will make mistakes.

NILIF will be your best friend. ;)

Also "pit bulls" in general do not need doggie friends. The APBT was kinda created for the opposite actually and Am Bullies can be just as dog agressive despite people who would like you to think otherwise. She could be puppy playing or she could be "on" so to speak already.

Read up on the breed and be a responsible owner and enjoy your puppy. :)
 
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#23
Ive owned pit bulls before. She isnt my first. I know what the breed is about. I also know what american bullies are. Im aware that most blue pit bulls are not pure. The color was added from mastiff breeds like neos.

I doubt she is pure, shes too big. The breeder is not reputable at all. In fact, she came from a black family who are into owning pit bulls for the "image". Though that is not me at all. I fell in love with the breed after my first pit bull. How good they are with children. And the natural fire they have in their eyes. That spark that they have. No other breeds have that.
 

stafinois

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#24
Ive owned pit bulls before. She isnt my first. I know what the breed is about. I also know what american bullies are. Im aware that most blue pit bulls are not pure. The color was added from mastiff breeds like neos.

Um... no. Blue has been there since before the breed was ever recognized by any kennel clubs.

Here is some information that I've gotten from various books over the years that I have to repost from time to time...


From The Book Of All Terriers by John T. Marvin (1964) in a
chapter on Working Terriers:

The Blue Paul or Blue Poll Terrier is here identified as a
working Terrier for want of better classification. This strain was of
the Bull Terrier family and, as the name suggested, came in a pleasing
bluish slate color. The dog had all of the attributes of the Bull
Terrier although it lacked the refinement of later animals. According
to fragmentary descriptions now available, this Terrier was closer in
conformation to the English Staffordshire Terrier than to the
presently-known Bull Terrier.

The Blue Paul was classed as a Scotch fighter. The greatest breeding
activity took place in the lowlands between Kirkintilloch and
Edinburgh where the strain existed and flourished for about seventy or
eighty years. There is no doubt that the Blue Paul variety of Bull
Terrier had Scotch blood in its veins. Brown (referring to Thomas
Brown's 1829 book Biographical Sketches and Authentic Anecdotes of
Dogs
), when speaking of the third variety of the Scotch
Terrier, mentioned that it was a larger dog up to 18 inches at the
withers, and had longer legs than the rest of the tribe. "It is from
this breed that the best bull-terriers have been produced," he wrote.



One of the first notices of the Blue Paul is seen in Alken's colored
etching on badger baiting (1820). Here a white Bull Terrier and a Blue
Paul Terrier are shown engaged in a badger-baiting contest. The white
is at grips with the badger and the handler is attempting to loose the
unfortunate animal by biting the Bull Terrier's tail. By 1880, or
thereabouts, the strain began to lose size and the old sixty-pound
heavyweights were no longer seen. The lightweights that came into
vogue were not up to the work and with this deterioration the strain
slowly slipped into oblivion.

Blue Pauls threw many colored offspring, mostly blues and brindles.
Occasionally a red appeared which was called a "Red Smut" because of
lack of clarity in the color. This type was never numerous and few
references to it can be found though data are available that document
its existence. The rare variety is mentioned to aid researchers who
may come across the name in some obscure reference.
From the book Canine Lexicon:

BLUE PAUL

These solid blue or solid red Scottish gladiators resembled the fighting
Staffordshires of England but could weigh twice as much. The blue dogs were
known in Scotland as Blue Pauls, and the reds as Red Smuts. The name Blue
Paul derives from a Scottish yarn about the pirate Paul Jones who reportedly
brought the dogs from abroad to the district of Kirkintilloch.

The dogs were popular with he gypsies of that district who maintained that
the dogs originally came from the Galloway coast, lending more color than
blue to the Paul Jones tale. Like the bull-and-terrier breeds from which
they derived, the Blue Pauls were game to the death in the ring. These dogs
remained mute even at the height of battle, very much like the Tosa of
Japan.

In appearance, the Blue Paul was similar in appearance to the Bullmastiff of
the late 1800s. The dog was a smooth coated cobby dog weighing about 45 lbs
(20.5 kg), standing 20 inches (51 cm) at the shoulder. The head was large,
the muzzle short and square. The jaws and lips were even, without
overhanging flews. The stop was slight: eyes, dark hazel. The ears, set on
high, were invariably cropped. The face was wrinkleless but the eyebrows
were contracted or knit. Mr. James B. Morrison of Greenock, England, reports
that the last Blue Paul exhibited was shown in the late 1880s.
From Wayne Brown's book The History of the American Pit Bull Terrier:

Many people claim that the Blue Paul is extinct. He may be extinct in his
pure form, but they were probably crossed with The Pit Bull Terriers in
England and Ireland, and the Pit Bull Terriers were brought to America from
Scotland. In 1857, McCaffrey imported the dog Spring from Glasgow, Scotland
to America. At that time Glasgow was the center of Blue Paul activity, as we
have seen. In 1858, in Rhode Island, Spring won a fight in 1 hour, 35
minutes. In 1859 he won a fight in 2 hours 15 minutes. In 1860, in Boston,
he beat Tom Story's dog in 2 hours 40 minutes. Spring was bred to Maid of
Erin, who was an imported bitch from Dublin Ireland and produced Young
Spring. Young Spring won a fight in 1 hour 15 minutes. In 1862 he beat
Sheffield George's dog in 3 hours 17 minutes, in New York. When Spring was
bred to John Mahon's imported bitch he produced Jeff who won a fight in
Providence, Rhode Island in 1 hour. He later won against miller's dog in 1
hour 10 minutes. In 1864 he won another fight in 1 hour 10 minutes. Dick,
another son of Spring, won a fight against Spring's Hope in 1 hour 17
minutes. Power's Violet was imported to America from Scotland by her
Scottish owner and, on January 10, 1892, beat a dog named Spright in
Massachussets. They fought at Catch weight which usually indicates large
dogs. Her size, plus her name which indicates a dark blue color, leads to
the possibility that she might have been a blue paul.

If the above dogs were Blue Pauls, their bloodline continued in America and
others were probably imported to America, England, and Ireland.
From another part of the book...

W.C.Roper bred some game dogs from stock
sent to him by Jim Williams and Bob Wallace. Some of Roper's dogs were
silver buckskin in color, such as Silver Jack and Roper's (William's)Silver.
Roper's Silver won 4 fights at 58 pounds.
And more...

Tudor's Black Jack (16xW) was, according to Earl Tudor, from a
Delihant's Paddy/Wichita Mike bloodline. His sire was Black Tige who was
sired by Blue Mike. Blue Mike was out of Miss Blue who was sired by Imported
Roger out of Henry's Blue Mary. The sire of Blue Mike was Wichita Mike who
was out of Henry's Blue Madge and sired by Henry's Black Demon.
A few pages later...

As we have seen, Tudor's Black Jack was important to
the Tacoma line but he was also important to the Ruffian line of American
Staffordshire Terriers. He was not only important in the development of pit
dogs, including the Dibo line, but he formed the basis for the Ruffian
line.
FYI, the Ruffian line of AmStafs is where you find the bulk of the blue dogs.
 
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#25
YES, blue has been there. BUT what Im trying to say is that you see it more often now days because of the mixture of mastiff blood. And the reason for introducing mastiff blood was to add bulk... heavier bone to the breed. Which is what american bullies are. A lot of people call their 110 pound bull dog an APBT, when they arent.

I did not say blue APBTs do not exsist, they do.
 
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#26
Um... no. Blue has been there since before the breed was ever recognized by any kennel clubs.

Here is some information that I've gotten from various books over the years that I have to repost from time to time...


From The Book Of All Terriers by John T. Marvin (1964) in a
chapter on Working Terriers:



From the book Canine Lexicon:



From Wayne Brown's book The History of the American Pit Bull Terrier:



From another part of the book...



And more...



A few pages later...



FYI, the Ruffian line of AmStafs is where you find the bulk of the blue dogs.
Interesting post!
 
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#27
Tallulah's a good example of a Blue Paul descendant. Even though I don't have the documentation on her it's pretty obvious what she is. Her type is more common here than in most parts of the country, where the blue APBT is a totally different animal than it is here, where back in the mountains the descendants of the original Irish and Scots settlers of the area still live -- and breed dogs from family lines that have been kept alive back in the hollers for so many generations.
 

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