Bamm growling and lunging at people

I was taught never to put PTS on the table with a client - it is not your call to make; if they ask you specifically what you think of it, or they are considering doing something that will put others at risk (i.e. rehoming an aggressive dog) you may discuss it, but to tell someone to do it? Never.

TBH I'm rather appalled that so many people have jumped right to this with a dog in a home - a shelter dog, yes, I would totally agree that PTS would be the most responsible, but not an owned dog with someone who is actively working with him and especially not when management is easy enough (muzzle when out of the apartment) and he's just gone through a major life change!

Amber, you were taking a reactive dog class with Bamm through your job right? How is that going? Does the instructor have any additional input/suggestions other than acknowledging that he does have issues?

This. I wouldn't even think PTS until everything comes up normal and management just isn't working out. I have a dog that I can't enjoy as a normal dog, but I enjoy him in other ways. He can't be out when we have people over unless he is being heavily managed but for me that is not reason to PTS. We make it work.

So what about the mention that OP is considering having a child? Is this the type of dog that would be safe around a baby? From what I'm reading, no. And if nothing is medically wrong and it's a "he's NQR" issue, then sorry, but PTS may be the kindest option for him.

I feel like this is a telling statement: "I don't trust him not to hurt someone right now."

Cross the bridge when it comes there... There's no baby in the foreseeable future as they arn't even trying right now.

I just feel there is a lot that needs to be checked before putting such a drastic measure on the table. I don't trust Classic not to hurt someone, but I trust my management style to keep him from getting into that situation in the first place.

I wouldn't be so quick to say PTS.

The Bamm that Amber talks about in this thread isn't a Bamm I have ever seen, personally. I even watched him at my house for a week a few years ago, he was really well-behaved, and he even met several of my friends without a problem. I think one of the differences is that Amber was not there. He is very protective over Amber.

Exactly. Is she preg right now? No (That we know of ). If she was preg then maybe we would be having a different discussion

I'm gobsmacked anyone would advise having a dog PTS like this purely from reading something about it over the net.

I can understand why people are saying it, though. Chloe isn't a stable dog. I can't trust her in all situations and I certainly will never, ever be able to trust her around young children. She's never bitten (made contact a few times, but never broke skin) and she's manageable enough for us to not have a problem in 98% of situations (and I've worked with her enough that in the 2% problem area she doesn't try to make a full out contact do damage bite).

But if she were to ever seriously hurt someone, or consistently tried to seriously hurt someone? If I were to have a child in her lifetime and it were not possible for me to keep them separated? If my lifestyle changed so dramatically that management wasn't plausible? I'd likely have to put her down. I would be absolutely devastated, but that would be what I would have to do.

So, yes, saying PTS just because something isn't medically wrong with him is a bit "extreme", but saying PTS because management isn't possible...nothing wrong with that at all.

Either way, I hope things work out for you guys and you can figure out what is causing him to react so strongly. (((hugs)))

I think the blood panel is a good thought. I also think that it may not be unreasonable to consider anxiety medication if that's warranted. If he is that stressed, helping him chemically to feel more comfortable will allow you to do behavior modification with him. And the muzzle to keep him and everybody else safe when out of the house.

If you decide that putting him to sleep is the only good option, then it is. But I think there's quite a bit of space between here and there at this point.

Wishing you guys the best.

I agree with elegy as far as thyroid panel and maybe some anxiety meds, whether you go herbal remedy or something far more chemical. It sucks that right now you are in an apartment and taking him out in public for walks is about the only chance for exercise he has, but I agree that it's manageable with a muzzle and possibly seeking out some less populated places or taking him out super early in the day or very late at night when fewer people are likely to be around.

I know it's a different situation but because of Pepper's fear issues with people, she will probably be the kind of dog who will need to be crated when people are over... it's just not fair to her to expect her to be out and about with all kinds of people in her face. I still want to socialize her more and see if I can't get her to be more ballsy and confident, and I also have thought about a thyroid panel on her, but right now I am expecting to have a dog that needs to be put away whenever people come over, and a dog where walking her is difficult because she is just plain unsure and afraid of so much. I know a lot of us want dogs for the social aspect and to take them everywhere but it just doesn't always work out like that... it doesn't mean they aren't still good dogs though.

If you guys end up pregnant you may have a different situation on your hands, but for right now I think you need to just play the cards you're dealt now. One thing at a time, one day at a time.

have to agree with all of this.
You have had alot of changes --and Bamm has had some behavioral changes along the way too (when you were in New Mexico--he had alot of room to run, and not have to cope with too much, when you were at your Mom's -he had some issues) then you move to a whole new place--and I imagine you and your husband are probably re-sorting your relationship since being able to be back together (Bamm will likely pick up on any tension). Bamm's life has become somewhat unpredictable (from what he has known)--and you know he took some time to become confident with you when you first got him. Sounds like he needs a schedule, some desensitization, (maybe with meds) and some confidence building? That's just my take having been on this journey from the time you got him.
Wilson has issues--and I do not trust him with strangers or children--but over the past few years he has become more confident in his place in our home, and less "needy" of reacting/protecting. Some dogs with "history" take time to re-adjust.
I hope you find answers with Bamm. I know how much you love him.

I totally agree with this. And I also have to say that it's far easier for people to say "If that were my dog I'd have him PTS" when it's not their dog than it is to make that choice with a dog you know and love. No healthy, young animal wants to die.

Definitely have the bloodwork done but don't expect miracles. I've not ever personally seen dogs with aggression change drastically due to low thyroid. But that isn't the only medical option. I have seen behavioral drugs help immensely. Not a cure all for sure but they can make a difference. Better management can go a long way too. Train him to wear a muzzle in public, do Ruff Love with him, crate him when anyone comes over and take a lot of extra precautions in general to keep him and others safe.

As far as the what-ifs of having a baby with this dog, cross that bridge when you get to it. No dog really has any business being around a baby anyway. And I have known some sketchy dogs who's owners were sure would have to be PTS when the baby arrived that ended up adoring the child. Even if it ultimately becomes obvious that he can't live with a baby and can't be rehomed, that could be years away and certainly not a reason to make such a permanent decision right now.

The anxiety medication idea is a good one and I'm going to bring that up to the vet as well. Yesterday Bamm acted fine on our walk and didn't growl or lunge at anyone. Then this morning we were walking down the stairs and he reacted to someone at the bottom of the last set of stairs. :/ its weird. It's like some days he acts totally fine and other days he is completely off. I'm still planning to get a thyroid panel done and get his eyes and ears checked. I'm also going to ask the vet of there's anything else that might cause a dog to act like this medically that we can check him for.

Also. I was talking to my boss more about this situation. She said that once things calm down at work she'd like to take him for a day to do a lot more extensive evaluation on him so we can hopefully figure out what's going on with him. We had started taking a mindful mutts class with him which deals with reactive dogs but it ended up being canceled the rest of the session due to us losing one of our trainers at work and my boss isn't sure when she is going to start that class up again. Hopefully soon.

He's been totally fine inside my apartment though aside from the fact that he doesn't relax easily. He is a pretty anxious dog more often than not. Honestly. He might really benefit from anxiety medications.

I know I mentioned earlier that putting him to sleep is an option Josh and I have discussed if all our other options don't help him. I still feel that way. I just don't want anyone to think I'm jumping to the decision to euthanize him right now or anything and trust me, I don't want to have to euthanize him at all which is why I want to exhaust other options before that becomes more of an option. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping we find a way to help Bamm though and work through this because I honestly do not want to lose my dog. If we do end up eventually coming to the point where PTS is the deciding we make then I really don't want to be flamed for it. I guess that's why I'm stating again that we plan to exhaust other options first because I love this dog more than anything and I know that deep down inside he really is a great dog and he is so loyal to me and a great friend.

Eta: also I'm keeping in mind that a lot of this stress and anxiety right now could be due to moving and also Cricket having just gone through heat. I'm hoping its just that and that he will be fine.

(((((HUGS)))))

Anyone who would flame you for putting down a dog who could potentialy be dangersous but is a loved family pet and the owner did everything they could for them is a @ss. We all know how much you love Bamm. He could do alot worse for owners and is lucky he found you.

We are all here for you and please let us know how things go

(((hugs))) The more you mention, the more I think meds might be a really good option! Def worth talking to the vet about.

I don't think anyone is saying that *you* making a call about PTS or not is bad or wrong - I know I was much more concerned about *other people* trying to push that with no idea of the whole story/picture from your side.

You know, Romy brings up a good point about Cricket just having been through heat. That, on top of all the other stresses in the last while could really be contributing.

Even Bimmer can be twitchy when Kharma's in heat, and he's as rock solid as they come.

Rescue Remedy sure wouldn't hurt, either.

No dog should ever be given 100% trust with strangers. I don't understand why people feel that if a dog is not trustworthy with random people, that it's a dangerous beast and should be killed. Some dogs don't like people unless it's their owners. They still make good pets and can be owned safely.

Amber I think it is well within your ability as a trainer to teach him to ignore people and maintain space between himself and strangers, and muzzle him with a comfortable basket muzzle when you take him out on walks. Also muzzle when you have children and/or idiots visiting.

I would not put him down because of this. If you and Josh decide to have a baby and Bamm continues to seem dangerous throughout the pregnancy, then I think it would be a good time to make a decision about the life of your dog. Until then, it sounds like the threat of him biting somebody is quite easy to neutralize with a muzzle and some desensitization. If PTS is the best option for him, I don't think anybody is going to flame you for it Amber. You have to make the best decision for Bamm, but you also have to think about you, Josh, Cricket and the family you want to have. People's responses on an internet forum should be the last of your concerns, and anyone who would feel entitled to look down their nose at you, for doing what you think is best for your dog, needs to get off their bloody high horse.

Don't panic. He might just be stressed and grouchy from Cricket's heat, it might be a physical issue, and it might be something that you can fix quite easily with a bit of training.

I dont have any advice, but I do have (((HUGS))) what ever decision you make is YOURS to make..

(((((MORE HUGS))))))

It really could be the stress from the move. Sally can be an anxious dog, and when we moved it really turned her world upside down. It took her forever to settle, she would lick herself, us, and random household objects obsessively. She was jumpy and super worried about people walking past the house-if we didn't close the shutters she would obsess at the windows constantly. She has always been timid with strangers, but became more tense on walks.

I would keep as consistent a schedule as possible with Bamm, and also practice strict NILIF. I know Sally less anxious when she knows what is coming. Also, I would walk him during a time when there are less people than normal, and use a basket muzzle. Does he have a good "watch me?" If so, I would work on that when there are strangers around.

^This x 1 million.

Only you can make that call.. People sitting on the other side of the computer screen who have never met the dog cannot even pretend to know enough about the situation to push a decision as drastic as that.