She called me a ...!!!!!!

skittledoo

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#1
Yesterday was just a really crappy day. I feel like I need to vent and also ask for some advice.

I was on the phone with my younger sister yesterday. She's about 19 years old and lives in California. Anyways, we started off talking about dog training because I'm looking into that as a career. Somehow we got into the discussion about this toller I'm planning on getting and AKC agility. Well that turned into her talking about how she doesn't agree with AKC creating standards for breeds. Basically she feels that a dog in a confirmation show is unfair because if a dog doesn't quite fit the standard then he has no chance of really winning. She feels that is discrimination against that dog. I disagree with her opinons on showing. I tried to explain to her that the dog can still do so many other things like agility and flyball for instance. However, she completely disagrees with AKC and the fact that they have standards for breeds.

Then she got into the whole breeding discussion with me. Her opinion was that all breeders do is contribute to the many unwanted dogs in the world. I can understand where she would come to that assumption, however; I think it's more of the byb breeders and puppy mills that are the big problem. Most real respectable breeders aren't going to overbreed their dogs and breed with the intentions of improving the breed and the health of the breed. They're not just breeding to make a quick buck. Plus, a respectable breeder will screen every potential buyer and usually they'll have in the contract that if the dog doesn't work out in the buyer's home then they are to be returned to the breeder.

Anyways... her opinion is that all breeders should simply stop breeding altogether until we find homes for all shelter dogs. That doesn't even sound in the slightest bit realistic IMO. Now, I'm getting a toller. Anyone who knows anything about tollers knows they're a relatively rare breed. I've looked into rescues and very RARELY will you find one in need of a home. Even then there's a super long waiting list at the toller breed rescues. I'm planning on doing AKC agility and hunt tests with this dog. I'm completely set on this breed. Why? Because I've researched tons of breeds and put myself in situations to spend time with different breeds and ultimately made the decision that a Toller would be the perfect dog for me. I explained to her that it's a rare breed and that if you want one you pretty much have to go through a breeder. She said, "Well why do you HAVE to have a toller? Why can't you just get another dog from a shelter?" When I mentioned that I need an AKC registered dog if I'm planning on competing in AKC agility. Then she goes into the whole, "Well why do you need to do AKC agility?" ummm... because I want to???

Anyways... I completely support rescues. I've had many rescue dogs and cats. I found Goober in a dumpster barely alive and I nursed him back to health. I've helped out in shelters. I donated my last car to an animal rescue. I try and help out wherever I can. Does she see that? No. All she sees is that I'm investing in a purebred dog from a breeder and in her words, "When you purchase from a breeder you are enabling them to bring more puppies into the world and therefore condemning all these shelter dogs to be euthanized." So what do I say to her?

One of her best friends and roommate has a horse that she paid I think about $30,000 for. He's no doubt from champion lines. He's worth more now I think and she does eventing with him. She's so quick to jump down my throat, but she completely supports her friend and goes to all her shows and sees nothing wrong with her having invested in this horse. Now there are so many horses going to slaughter houses, or in horse rescues needing homes and PMU mares and foals in need of homes. How is that any different really? Now I'm not against her friend having this horse, but I don't understand why she thinks that's really any different.

Now what is she going to say when I decide I'm ready to have a baby? I know she really wants kids of her own. So if I decide to bring a baby into this world... how many kids are there in orphanages that need homes? Now... I know that comparing human kids to animals is kinda different... but is it really all THAT different? I'm just trying to make valid points to get her to understand that she can't see one and be blind to the other when they're both on the same page.

I don't see anything wrong with someone wanting to have their own child. I don't see anything wrong with someone wanting a horse from good lines, especially if they're planning on showing. I don't see anything wrong with someone wanting a purebred dog either. Sure there are kids, horses and dogs out there in need of homes. I don't think that we should only ever invest in purebreds and turn our eyes completely away from those in need. We can still find our ways to contribute and help out. However, she sees only that because I want to get a toller from a breeder that I am a "dog killer." I'm a SERIOUS animal lover so that hurts WAY worse then someone calling me a Bitch or a Cunt, or an "insert choice word here".

So... what can I say to her to better understand AKC and the breeding world, etc etc? How can I help her understand why I'm investing in this dog??? I'm just really out of sorts about it all and having a really bad day.
 

skittledoo

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#2
And on top of things, I was talking to my mom. She just got a puppy from her friend who is a breeder. She's a byb. My mom keeps trying to defend her and said, "Well she's picky about who she'll allow to take one of her pups." Ok... that's all good and dandy... however... when my mom told me she wasn't sure she was going to spay her new pup or put her through obedience school that flew up some red flags. A good breeder in my opinion would require spay/neuter unless an agreement is made to show the dog and possibly use the dog for future breeding. A good breeder would require some sort of obedience training... I've looked at many many contracts that required it. So she's opting against it and apparently when she bought this dog there was absolutely no contract.

She has no intentions to breed this dog. At least I truly hope not especially considering the way she's handled the situation thus far. There are so many medical reasons on top of the worry of her becoming pregnant that she needs to consider. She needs to spay this dog in my opinion. She's at risk for multiple diseases. And obedience school? My mom got Cheyanne for us when we were little kids, but of course at that age I had no clue about training dogs, obedience, whatever. My mom didn't spay her and she never had any obedience training. I loved that dog more than anything, but she was dog aggressive and had the worst manners I've seen. When I was older and doing more training type of stuff I helped her with some of her issues, but I personally don't think she would have been that way if my mother had truly taken an interest in obedience school when she was a pup. She's setting herself to make the same mistake. Sorry I'm venting so much today... there's not a lot of people I know out here that would really understand anything I'm saying... and since everyone on here are dog lovers... I feel more comfortable venting all this to everyone on Chaz...

some more advice please? Anyone got a nice big sense hammer I can nock into her brain?
 

AgilityPup

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#3
Just got to say, does your sister not understand that you can both adopt, and get a purebred?

I've got a GSD laying beside me, who in my opinion, I adopted, and she came from a breeder, before the 2 other people had her.

I agree, if you want to buy a purebred dog, do it. It's when people buy "pure Labradoodles" that it bothers me. Pet store puppies, and designer breeds can be found at local shelters, however Tollers can not.

:) I agree.
 

MafiaPrincess

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#4
Tel lher that the AKC doesn't set standards. They are a registry. Breed clubs set the standards on what a dog should look like. And they do so to try to keep their breed pure.

If responsible people stopped breeding until all homeless animals had homes.. You'd never see quality dogs again. Skeazy people and oopses would happen forever. The responsible breeders stock would be long dead. Can't recreate something from nothing.

Most of europe doesn't fix animals.. they see it as unnecessary surgery. They happen to be able to be responsible for the most part with their animals. Overpopulation of unwanted animals is really low. People would need to try harder and care here fixing pets or being responsible with unfixed ones to make a dent in unwanted population.

Explain you specifically want a toller pup from the lines you've picked so you know what you are going to get. I have 2 american cockers. My well bred one is a joy. Everything cocker should be. Cider is sweet, works well, and is so not cocker it isn't funny. She looks liek one. She's not like one in temperament.

You search out good lines because you know what you want. The same way her friend did in purchasing a horse. Rescue dogs can be nice. I'm not debating they aren't sweet and loveable. There's less assurances on how they'll be or look. Doesn't make a shelter dog bad. It's simply not what you are looking for at this time.
 

skittledoo

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#5
Thanks... I honestly feel like I'm going to sit down and write her a letter. I don't think that we'll get anywhere if I try to call her up because I can't say that she wouldn't consistently interrupt me. We both like to debate each other. If I write her a letter I think I will be better able to think about word choice and the such. Can't talk to her about it in person seeing as how she lives in California and I'm in Virginia.

I agree that if responsible breeders stopped breeding altogether for the time being then you'd never see quality dogs again. It's not just quality dogs by means of looks... but in health and disposition as well. Responsible breeders take pride in their lines.

With a shelter dog you never know what you're going to get. You could get a dog that fits perfectly into your home... or you could end up with a dog that doesn't fit at all with you and yours. It's hard to know what a shelter dog's past has been like. Different dogs respond differently to different past home situations and such. You're right though... it doesn't make shelter dogs bad. The best dog I ever had was a shelter dog. It's just not what I'm looking for at this time. It doesn't mean that I have no plans to adopt in the future. I'd like to adopt a Doberman in a few years as well.

Don't get me wrong. I'm glad to see that my sister holds such a passion for these dogs in need. The world needs people like her. Still, I don't think she knows enough about the dog world to understand where I'm coming from on the whole purebred thing. I think if she would open her mind to educating herself a little more in how AKC works and breeders and the like then she may understand. However, as it stands, I don't think she will. She's pretty stubborn. I'm not... *cough*
 

noludoru

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#6
LOL.... you kinda stole the words right out of my mouth. Your first post sounds pretty much exactly like what I'd say if I ranted about the same situation.

Mafia covered pretty much everything I wanted to say--and said it better, too--but I'd like to add that not only is it NOT the AKC who sets guidelines for the breed standard.. BUT... the breed standard is part of what makes the breed. If we bred one excellent member of the breed to another excellent member of the breed with no regard to form, eventually (in most breeds) they would not be able to do their jobs well. If you bred Saluki to saluki to saluki and didn't go for structure as well as temperament and talent, eventually you'd probably end up with dogs that don't run well. If you bred Bloodhound to Bloodhound with no regard to structure.. while some of them may be fine trackers, eventually you'd probably breed some with bad paws, too short necks (have to unbalance themselves to sniff the ground), bad back and leg conformation, etc. MANY famous bloodhounds have not been bred from, because even though they did their jobs excellently did not have the conformation to be bred.. or the health in a few cases.

The guidelines that are set for the breed are the ones that enable the breed to do it's job best. How do you think the thin-bodied, thin-furred, whip-tailed hunting labs would fare in cold northern waters all day? Not nearly as well as the stocky, barrel-chested, thick-furred, otter-tailed Labradors that were selectively bred for it.

In most breeds the standards are not there to make a "pretty" dog, they are there to make the BEST dog. If a dog does not fit the standard, we are not "discriminating" against said dog... the dog just isn't a well-bred specimen of the breed. There is no one pointing fingers and telling that dog it sucks.... it just can't compete in serious conformation classes.
 

elegy

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#7
i think if you want predictability you'd be best off adopting an adult dog who has lived in a home, whether it's a dog from a rescue or a breeder. with a pup, even from a great breeder, there's still a fair amount of unpredictability built in.

i understand why there are so many people who so vehemently support adopting only. i really do understand where their hearts are. but they're missing a large and important part of the picture. there is absolutely nothing wrong with buying a dog from a responsible breeder, whether you have plans for that dog or just want a good pet. don't let her get you down.
 

Laurelin

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#8
i understand why there are so many people who so vehemently support adopting only. i really do understand where their hearts are. but they're missing a large and important part of the picture. there is absolutely nothing wrong with buying a dog from a responsible breeder, whether you have plans for that dog or just want a good pet. don't let her get you down.
I think that says it really well for me too. There is nothing wrong with buying a dog from a breeder. It is not a worse option than adopting. Adopting is great, but is not for everyone or every situation. Owning purebred dogs, and especially show dogs, people will give you flack for your decisions. What you've got to do is do the best for you and your new dog.

You know what you need in your next dog and you know how to find a good breeder, so more power to you, I say. ;)

If everyone put the time, effort, and research into buying a quality dog as I'm sure you are, then there'd be much fewer bad fits and a lot fewer surrendered dogs.
 

happyhound

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#9
That line of thought came from PETA. You're killing a shelter dog when you buy from a breeder? Give me a break. The person that abandoned them killed them.

 

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