Would this bother you?

MandyPug · Nov 5, 2012

There's a breeder of a common mix breed in my area. While she does try to do the right things... health tests - prelim hips and elbows and CERF at least once in their lives; enforces spay/neuter contracts though by pediatric spaying the puppies, she's realistic about the dogs allergy friendliness... She also has 4 or more litters a year it seems. What she does is offer people a female puppy for free, but it only becomes theirs at all after its produced as many litters as she wants. She breeds them typically 4-5 times each and she has a number of these "guardian homes" reportedly into the double digits. She then sells the puppies for $2500 a piece for pet quality. Rumor has it she has told people she makes over $100,000 a year doing this.

Would that bother you? Her dogs are all over the area now. I see many every day from pet owners to these "guardians". Guaranteed when a customer tells me what kind of dog they had I can say the breeder and its correct.

stardogs · Nov 5, 2012

That would skeeve me out a lot. It's awesome that she health tests, but are there any other redeeming qualities? Does she change breeding plans based on the health tests or just breed anyway? Does she care about temperaments? How does she place dogs into good homes with that many on the ground? Too many questions for my liking and added on to the fact that it sounds like this is a doodle of some type - not cool in my book.

Locke · Nov 5, 2012

That definitely bothers me. Quantity over quality is NEVER the way to go, especially when it comes to living things.

Southpaw · Nov 5, 2012

Definitely bothers me, if this were a breeder of a breed I were interested in, I'd be immediately saying NOPE after hearing that.

maxfox426 · Nov 5, 2012

Does it bother me? Yes. I disagree with the practice, and I wouldn't support it personally.
Does it bother me enough that I would do something about it? Probably not.

sassafras · Nov 5, 2012

I guess I would need to know more... like, how much is rumor/gossip/speculation vs how much is true. "Reportedly" and "rumor has it" aren't really enough for me to condemn her out of hand. My views on breeders and what makes a "good" breeder have relaxed in some ways and gotten more restrictive in other ways over time.

I can say what wouldn't bother me about this situation... It wouldn't bother me that they are doodles or that she is producing "just" pets. And it wouldn't necessarily bother me that she has an agreement to breeding rights for some of her female dogs, which is not is not exactly an uncommon practice other than the number of litters she's apparently producing from each of these bitches. But apparently she puts at least some thought into which female puppies she does this with since others are sold spayed. And honestly it doesn't necessarily bother me that she makes money, either, IF she is honest with her buyers, her dogs have good temperaments and she continues with at least basic health testing and there truly are enough homes for all the puppies she is producing.

What would bother me... if the 4-5 litters out of each of these "guardian" homes is true, that is a bit bothersome to me. That's a lot of puppies being produced and a big commitment for the guardian homes - although presumably they know what they're getting into. And it would be nice if she did more than preliminary hips and elbows and more than a single CERF, and some kind of something to demonstrate their temperaments, especially since she's likely breeding dogs destined to be family pets. Even something really simple like CGC, at least make the effort to do that much. But those aren't like, worse than Hitler things for me, either.

Fran101 · Nov 5, 2012

I have no issue with guardian homes, selling price or anything else especially since she is health testing and enforcing S/N and realistic about allergies..

the only thing that would bother me is the SHEER AMOUNT of litters. If that's true.. then yea, it would bother me. That is far too many puppies IMO even if there is a market for them. How can one breeder possibly screen homes and do the legwork matching sires/dams with that many pups on the ground at all times?

*blackrose · Nov 5, 2012

sassafras said:

I guess I would need to know more... like, how much is rumor/gossip/speculation vs how much is true. "Reportedly" and "rumor has it" aren't really enough for me to condemn her out of hand. My views on breeders and what makes a "good" breeder have relaxed in some ways and gotten more restrictive in other ways over time.

I can say what wouldn't bother me about this situation... It wouldn't bother me that they are doodles or that she is producing "just" pets. And it wouldn't necessarily bother me that she has an agreement to breeding rights for some of her female dogs, which is not is not exactly an uncommon practice other than the number of litters she's apparently producing from each of these bitches. But apparently she puts at least some thought into which female puppies she does this with since others are sold spayed. And honestly it doesn't necessarily bother me that she makes money, either, IF she is honest with her buyers, her dogs have good temperaments and she continues with at least basic health testing and there truly are enough homes for all the puppies she is producing.

What would bother me... if the 4-5 litters out of each of these "guardian" homes is true, that is a bit bothersome to me. That's a lot of puppies being produced and a big commitment for the guardian homes - although presumably they know what they're getting into. And it would be nice if she did more than preliminary hips and elbows and more than a single CERF, and some kind of something to demonstrate their temperaments, especially since she's likely breeding dogs destined to be family pets. Even something really simple like CGC, at least make the effort to do that much. But those aren't like, worse than Hitler things for me, either.

^ This, basically.

Renee750il · Nov 5, 2012

Gotta go with Sassafras and Fran.

That's a LOT of puppies, and it increases exponentially with each generation.

It's a description of the sort of breeding that gives the rescue nazis an excuse to tar and feather breeders.

Fran27 · Nov 5, 2012

That seems crazy for me. But as long as people are willing to pay $2500 for a mutt, nothing you can do (that's really insane).

Mina · Nov 5, 2012

MandyPug said:

No. It wouldn't bother me.
There is nothing new here so,
why should it be bothersome?

I've yet to meet a single mixed breed breeder
who was not in it for the cash flow
(although I assume that there must be a few out there ... maybe?).

It sounds like this particular breeder is
simply more adept at taking advantage
of the ignorant.

opcorn:

Flyinsbt · Nov 5, 2012

Yes, it would bother me, though there's nothing you can do about it. And it would not bother me just because they are mixed breeds, that would be the least of my concerns.

One thing I particularly dislike is when breeders force novice people to breed their dogs. Breeding can be very not fun, and requiring that of people who don't necessarily know what they are getting into is not cool. I suppose at least she's giving them the dog, unlike breeders in my breed who will sell bitch pups on a "puppy back" contract, take their puppies back, and sell them on for the same type of contract.

But still... not fair.

Saeleofu · Nov 5, 2012

That doesn't sit well with me at all. Quantity is probably my biggest turn-off.

Kilter · Nov 5, 2012

Considering that prelims are not really clearances, and mainly as a tool to 'sneak peak', and if it's a golden in the mix heart issues are huge and common in the byb stock, then yeah, that bothers me.

It would be one thing if a mixed breed breeder was doing ALL the right things but in many cases that's not it, it's a money grab and they don't take back the dog when things go wrong (like it sheds).

If they did all clearances and were good on the ethic thing, and gave the breeding dogs to homes free and then spayed when finished breeding them, then maybe. But I've seen it many times where the person pays full price, gets nothing, then has to spay the dog after themselves too. I'm always amazed people go for that.

And on the ethic thing, they should be putting all breeding dogs into pet therapy and some sort of performance to show they are good tempered and trainable. I've met a lot of not so smart doodles that are spooky and aggressive. But it's a fad so they sell well I guess.

Miakoda · Nov 5, 2012

Does it bother me? One word: YES.

CharlieDog · Nov 6, 2012

She's pretty much following Leerburgs principle on how to breed a sh*tload of litters in a year.

Aleron · Nov 6, 2012

I'm not sure, I tend to agree with a lot of what Sassafras said.

To me, it seems this is a commercial breeder who has found a better way to produce a lot of puppies. A better way for the dogs for sure, then having to be kennel dogs.

It is similar to what Leerburg suggests as a way to build a bloodline.

http://leerburg.com/foster1.htm

BlackPuppy · Nov 6, 2012

The positive aspects are, the individual females are (hopefully) living in a loving home as as a family member and not in a cage, and only 4 to 5 litters in a lifetime. Well, I prefer a maximum of 4. If this is true, it's a much better situation for the females than living in a kennel and pumping out puppies twice a year for life.

I guess Aleron said the same.

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