Feeding Uncle Fred

I know what is a good food and what is a bad food. Uncle Fred, however will not cooperate. I have tried everything from Wellness to Canidae to Evo. I have changed foods slowly and carefully. Nothing helped. He had recurrent giardia too, so that muddied the waters.

Finally I did some research into coonhound history. Historically, most coonhounds have been fed on cornbread and scrap meat. I would assume that breeding selected those that thrived on this diet. So I took the free coupon I had and bought Iams Chunks. No more diarrhea, no blood no mucus. He has put on weight and is glossy and full of energy.

So now what do I do? Does anyone know of a better corn based kibble? I know he doesn't digest rice because he poops it out whole, I used to think he had tapeworm because of the grains. I don't think I am prepared to cook cornbread for my dog.

Minnie the beagle is doing great on Canidae.

Iams chunks? wet or kibble? Either way I wouldn't feed it, but seeing as how you had the problems with his diet and yucky stool...I guess whatever works. Caiza had giardia and GI issues but raw venison meat has cleared up his issues. He never had a firm/hard stool until I went raw. So are you basically looking for a food that has corn in it? Corn is a cheap filler and it goes right through both us and dogs with little nutritional value. I hope someone else can advise you on what maybe best for uncle fred...............

If I were you, I would consider the Eagle Pack line. Their original line contains corn, but is WAY better quality than Iams.

http://www.eaglepack.com/Pages/SP_Home.html

Maybe you could try Raw? You'd have to do your research first though. They do have premade raws you can try. That really stinks, I'm glad he's feeling better though, It's one of those cases where you have to go with what works I guess. Then again I don't know much about nutrition except what ingredients are bad so maybe someone more knowledgeable can help you out.

Showpug posted at the same time as me, go with what she says.

I know, the whole situation is nuts. I hate feeding Iams just because I don't like the company. I know that logically dogs can't digest corn, but apparently Uncle Fred can, because on the Iams he produces about one third the volume of stool he did on Canidae, and it is firm. It's also obvious he feels well.

There are still some coonhound breeders who feed their dogs cornbread. One advised me to go to the man who dresses my venison and get venison scrap. He said he got his for free, froze it and fed it raw with the cornbread. Unfortunately I don't have a venison dresser- they are hard to find here in Jersey. His dogs apparently thrive on this.

Most coonhound breeders feed Black Gold. It actually has a picture of a Treeing Walker on the bag. It is based on corn and meat and bone meal, which doesn't sound good at all. What I need is a high protein corn and red meat based food if at all possible, I think.

Their is a EVO Red Meat formula.... but of course it has NO corn ?? did you try that or just the regular EVO ??

Thanks, Showpug, I checked out the website, and though they have formulas that contain corn, they also contain a lot of rice, unfortunatly.

I feed him dry Iams Chunks with my own wet food consisting of ground beef, sweet potatoes, and a little chicken liver. After months of staring balefully into his full food bowl, he eats this with gusto. Also he is off his prednisone and flagyl. In the last two months he has had only one incident of diarrhea, and that was after a week of Keflex when he was attacked by a Mastiff.

I tried only the red meat Evo formula, because at the time we thought he might not tolerate chicken.

It's actually not all that true that dogs can't digest corn. They can't digest whole, raw corn but that isn't what is in dog food. The corn in dog food is ground and cooked and when it's quality corn, the dog can get nutrients from it.

I am not a fan of corn in dog food and I won't feed it to my dogs. But, the notion that all corn is poor quality and just a filler isn't 100% accurate. I know some foods use high quality, human grade corn and it's not the number one ingredient. I think it's more important to focus on what your dog thrives on and does well on than focusing on one ingredient in the food.

Royal Canin isn't bad either. When Chloe was a puppy, she had difficulties with a bunch of different holistic foods. We had her on Royal Canin for a couple of months until we tried her on Timberwolf (which worked for her!). She's fine now on grainfree.

I want to collect some suggestions and then see if I have the guts to switch. At his worst he had dark red blood running down his legs and required IV fluids. I don't think that's likely, he is so healthy now, but I sure don't want to risk it. I felt so helpless. For a while I didn't know if I would ever feed him successfully.

I wouldn't want to switch either! I would at least keep him on the Iams for a while so his system can get a break and settle. Once he seems stable and has been doing well then maybe look at upgrading to a higher quality food.

So maybe I'll just feed the Iams and feel better about it. I feel bad feeding this food that I know isn't the best, and is made by a company that allegedly is cruel to animals. But he looks so good- well, at least it's not Old Roy.

I agree... partially... :lol-sign: Personally I dont feed corn or any grains to my dogs however.... I will turn a blind eye to a food which uses corn as a carb as apposed to a protien source. Far too many foods use it as protien sources. And granted the dog has no intolerance or adverse reactions from corn.

That being said...
Raw would be my first suggestion to you, that way you can add and delete what ever works for your dog.
second suggestion, perhaps finding a kibble that has corn in it, but used as a carb not a protien.(If that even exists)
Check out this site ( http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com ) and go through each of the 6 star ratings and see if you can find a food that you are satisfied with. Its a great site to get a good over view of ingredients and reviews for MANY different brands.

I wouldn't put too much faith in some of that stuff. Probably spawned through economics; you could look the way things were done in the past and note things will change, and also note possible regional influence. Cornbread is a Southern style fare, and many a good ol' coonhound (I really like the black n tans) has Southern roots. Regional influence does play a role, but that is not to say many a coonhound also fared very well on scrap meat and grits, scrap meat and pancakes, scrap meat and hash browns, etc. I think in regards to the diet, it is the scrap meat that would be of the utmost importance, not the 'regional' side dish.

All that aside...WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED TO THE CORN???

If your seeking corn in your dogs diet, I would look at the Purina line. Purina is using it probably across the board. Knock the stuff all you want, but many dogs have led perfectly normal healthy lives eating the stuff. If I were to go in that direction, I would stay at the higher end of the totem pole instead of the lower. Pro Plan is better IMO than say Beneful. A lot of folks have good results with Pro Plan, however if I were feeding it I would stay with the Pro Plan original and not go w/ the Pro Plan "Selects". You want good diet for your Coonhound even though probably more diet than what you need (I assume your not hunting this dog)? 50% raw meat, 50% Pro Plan, and vitamin supplements, and you'll have one of the finest looking Coonhounds in the Garden State.

The reason there has been a shift off of corn-based diets (some will call their diets holistic simply because they removed one ingredient) is because something did happen to the corn, but I'm not talking about a fungus causing a recall. The problem with corn is it is no longer corn, as we once knew. A long time staple ingredient in dog food and many a dog never had a problem with widespread use. I fed corn-based diets for a good number of years and never had any problems to speak of, but that was good old-fashioned corn I guess. Corn was the blame for many allergies emerging on dogs. Some say it is a myth. But consider this; Corn is now 'genetically engineered". The oil crunch and the diversion to alternative sources of energy such as corn-based derivatives (ethanol, gasohol, whatever) has played its role in the need for its use. Hybrid seeds, clones seeds, genetically engineered, has become the norm. Guess what, maybe the dogs can tell something’s up, something not the same the way it once was and not longer that trouble free ingredient. Maybe there is a connection between the allergy thing? Good news is many dogs still remain trouble free on corn diets, and the Vets have one less ingredient really to blame for the hot spots. So now I think the trend is to blame the chicken, turkey, and meat. Have you noticed that...more people seem to be saying my dog is allergic to meat based ingredient these days?

Charlie

I wouldn't put too much faith in some of that stuff. Probably spawned through economics; you could look the way things were done in the past and note things will change, and also note possible regional influence. Cornbread is a Southern style fare, and many a good ol' coonhound (I really like the black n tans) has Southern roots. Regional influence does play a role, but that is not to say many a coonhound also fared very well on scrap meat and grits, scrap meat and pancakes, scrap meat and hash browns, etc. I think in regards to the diet, it is the scrap meat that would be of the utmost importance, not the 'regional' side dish.

All that aside...WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED TO THE CORN???

If your seeking corn in your dogs diet, I would look at the Purina line. Purina is using it probably across the board. Knock the stuff all you want, but many dogs have led perfectly normal healthy lives eating the stuff. If I were to go in that direction, I would stay at the higher end of the totem pole instead of the lower. Pro Plan is better IMO than say Beneful. A lot of folks have good results with Pro Plan, however if I were feeding it I would stay with the Pro Plan original and not go w/ the Pro Plan "Selects". You want good diet for your Coonhound even though probably more diet than what you need (I assume your not hunting this dog)? 50% raw meat, 50% Pro Plan, and vitamin supplements, and you'll have one of the finest looking Coonhounds in the Garden State.

The reason there has been a shift off of corn-based diets (some will call their diets holistic simply because they removed one ingredient) is because something did happen to the corn, but I'm not talking about a fungus causing a recall. The problem with corn is it is no longer corn, as we once knew. A long time staple ingredient in dog food and many a dog never had a problem with widespread use. I fed corn-based diets for a good number of years and never had any problems to speak of, but that was good old-fashioned corn I guess. Corn was the blame for many allergies emerging on dogs. Some say it is a myth. But consider this; Corn is now 'genetically engineered". The oil crunch and the diversion to alternative sources of energy such as corn-based derivatives (ethanol, gasohol, whatever) has played its role in the need for its use. Hybrid seeds, clones seeds, genetically engineered, has become the norm. Guess what, maybe the dogs can tell something’s up, something not the same the way it once was and not longer that trouble free ingredient. Maybe there is a connection between the allergy thing? Good news is many dogs still remain trouble free on corn diets, and the Vets have one less ingredient really to blame for the hot spots. So now I think the trend is to blame the chicken, turkey, and meat. Have you noticed that...more people seem to be saying my dog is allergic to meat based ingredient these days?

Charlie

Hey, thanks. I will take a look at proplan. I have actually recommended it to people who will only buy food at the supermarket because it's about the best stuff there, but never considered it for Uncle Fred. So you suggest supplementing it with 50% raw- would that be by weight or volume or what?

This sounds like a workable alternative- something I could work up to- I mean the 50% raw. By the way, I think I already have the finest looking coonhound in the Garden State!

Oh, by the way, though I'm not hunting him, he will tree. And he came to me thoroughly abused but trash broke, so deer, etc, are really not a problem. My son would love to try hunting him, but here in Jersey there's really no opportunity. Your Springers are beautiful.

Sorry, my post come through twice, I was in a dead spot for a while hitting the enter key a few times.

If your going to supplement with some raw, I would find out how much is needed per ounce/ body weight. Then reduce that by 1/2 and reduce the Pro Plan by 1/2 and mix it up. That diet I got from a fellow who was at the time racing his Greyhounds in FLA. I was chatting with him of all places at a blackjack table. That was his diet, but like I said, 50% raw, 50% Pro Plan, and Vitamin supplementation daily would be considered a pretty strong diet
and probably more than what is needed. However, regardless any strong diet
should yield excellent results for all dogs! Pro Plan has the corn gluten and corn so that is going to get you added cals. A diet like that you should also notice over time reduction of overall food intake. When the cals go up, they eat less for they need less.

I'm hunting my dog. Third pic in on my signature Zoe is on a rock solid point
on a Pheasant. I belong to a local Rod and Gun Club here in CT. Last year our club sponsored a local CT Coonhound Club from across to state to come up and use our property. We have I think 200+ acres, too small for Preserve status but big enough our needs. Non-preserve status means we stop hunting when the state small game season ends. Preserves can continue to mid-March. Anyway, we welcome the Coonhounds on our property
when those folks run their events. Maybe look into it someday and see what the folks are doing in NJ, I'm sure they have some Coonhound clubs scattered about in the Pine Barrens. If you hear any banjo playing though.....get out of there fast!

Charlie

Also, just as a cautionary thing I would be careful with any kibble product including Pro Plan in regards to some ingredients. Beet pulp is controversial
and highly debatable as a quality ingredient. Many people before taking their dogs out in the field for workouts and extended periods of exercise will have their dogs on a mini-fast up to 24 hrs prior. This is in regards to reducing the odds on issues like bloat. It is a good idea to err on the side of caution in that respect in regards to the activity levels of your dog and kibbles. They do have powerbar/energybar snacks that are common for some to carry in the field when the dogs have been on a mini-fast and safer IMO than going out on a full belly. I think it can be, and viewed also by many others as an 'issue' worth some concern but clearly not in regards to the raw, just the kibble.