Dutch Shepherds

herders (IN GENERAL) don't have a lot of slow twitch muscles in their head so their hang time is no where near what a good bullbreed is, but their bite power is greater (all things being equal, which it never is). so wanting better hold they added bull blood.
i don't think the issue is lack of drive just trying to increase it. it is apparently something of a synergistic effect like when bulls & terriers were crossed, you come out w/ something that has more drive than either parent.
this crossing isn't new it's been done over & over throughout the development of the breeds, which is also true of many working breeds.

This feels like one of those "tell me what I want to hear" vs "tell me the truth" kind of posts.

The reason you get negative feedback from so many people who have been around these dogs is because they are trying to tell the truth. Bigger and stronger than a Mal, with similar drives, not a great family dog. I know a lot of GSD's I wouldn't recommend as potential family dogs either- it's just how it is, these dogs are wired differently and need strong, experienced handlers and lots of activity to be happy. We're not talking an hour of playing ball and a walk around the neighborhood type of activity either.

@Pops2

i know about that board and i frequent it quite often. i know the person you are talking about from what i have read, she would not be one that i would ask anything when it comes to these dogs.

@DanL

this is not a post "tell me what I want to hear" vs "tell me the truth" kind of posts. but again we all have our opinions.

A good friend has one (good as in when my 'boel got a mouthful of his Dutchie; he laughed it off; said Quincy always stirs the pot).

Quincy is hell on wheels; very driven, very intense. He is not handler soft at all; in fact Paul and him have had some serious down and outs. Quincy is the ****; everywhere, every minute. He absolutely OWNS what he is standing on; and he probably owns what you are standing on as well. He's not dog aggressive; although had he not had the owner he does; he could be; he's **** straight reactive, tail in the air; chest puffed out; every second. When he's not "on", to do something; it's cause he's waiting to be told he can do something. Prey drive up the ying yang, as long as there is a ball or sleeve he's on it. He's a hell of a dog and if I was 99% calmer than what I am; I'd own one; however; not with my kids (my boy's kinda in training to be a decoy; if you include the 3 times he's been bitten by high drive shepherds and my daughter's kinda squeaky), not with my 3 jobs and not with my 2 bitches.
Not fair to the DS.

'nother friend owns one and because he didn't have enough time for the dog; it sits in a kennel all day; and has developed the wonderful habits of spinning and barking incessantly.

Hope you have 20 hours a day for one; since they are pretty hardass and only need to sleep 4; with their one eye open of course.

And there was an awesome pic of a dutchie X bull terrier on Longwood's board; comes from some KNPV lines. See what I can find of it.

mastiffmom
i wouldn't ask for her advice on any dogs. i am sorry if i came on too strong. you didn't come across like you want one for competing in mondio ring & K9 pro or to train up for the local PD. your posts came across very disinterested in the level of work necessary for the vast majority of DS in this country. as i said before i have first hand experience w/ what happens when people get more dog than they bargained for. understand it's nothing personal. at the same time the current situation for bullbreeds is precisely because people getting them that shouldn't and then not being able or willing to do right by them. i hate to see that sort of thing happen.

^ this...

That KNPV dog I was talkin about

Cash (Metz) - Working-Dog.eu

@ Pops2

No problem Pops2,

i am fully aware of the bully breeds as I do rescue from time to time. right now i have a female pitty and an EM male (185lbs) in rescue right now. i have had the pitty for about 3 years because when they see her and her ears are cropped, people back away. i have rescued 4 ABs in the past year all being male and have placed them in competent and loving homes. one was a bit aggressive but he came around lol. its my way or the highway lol.

i currently own a BM female outright and an EM female that is on contract. yes i have my hands full, but i can handle them and they know i am the Alpha. i just got offended when someone said something about a "fat lazy Rott or was it from working lines." it is a shame that some just feel that all dogs of a certain breed is one way or the other. it is like saying all people of a certain race is the same, ok yes this is a bit more than a dog, but it is just an example.

Pops, I missed the edit earlier today but thanks for adding the username. I wasn't about to go reading every post on the board and there doesn't seem to be a search function. I did find some interesting reading once I had a name to look for.

As for crossing mals with pits, this is the first I've heard of that specifically, but it doesn't surprise me all that much.

About Pops2

i have seen Pops2 on a couple of boards and never has he bitten his tongue. i dont know know him but i can respect what he says. i say he, because with names you dont know you are really speaking to.

i dont think he is going to tell me something just because he thinks that is what i want to hear. i go on several boards and just read what others have to say. i am not stupid by no means. just because i have not said what i am wanting to do with the dog in question doesnt mean that i wont do anything with the dog. owning Rotts years ago, i have learned that you have to do something with them. i trained my dog myself and he was a good dog. we had a lot of fun learning. he only weighed in at about 80 to 85 lbs and would do whatever i asked of him. there is nothing wrong with different, as long as you can handle different. good night ladies and gents and thanks for all the feedback.

It's really common in the KNPV bloodines, but not so much done in the French & Belgian lines that are FCI registered. I've heard that they toss Great Dane in there for size occasionally. I believe that. I've seen some GIANT Malinois & Dutchies that were strangely reminiscent of a Dane.