Don't fall for marketing scams ..

O.k. guys, not to be ignorant, but I'm relatively new, so what is flaming?! I guess I should know, so I don't get called on it again. Angelique, you know why I asked what your proffessional background in dogs is. I've read some very strange posts this past week and feel better if I have a sense of who I'm talking to. Also, while I love a good debate, I don't like debating a licensed vet, certified behaviorist or another trainer and making myself look silly! Lol As for pet owners, I enjoy listening to and respect their opinions. But when one is going to challenge someone whose a trainer for a living, I simply hope that if they want to have a "battle of wits", they come equally armed. That's what makes a good debate enjoyable. Thanks for posting what you do and good to hear you trained Dobies! As you know I have been bragging about my new Dobie for weeks! Have a good evening.

It's a matter of perception, but generally involves personal attacks, discrediting, and twisting the meaning of someone's post.

No problems! I went back and read through your posts and found you to be a pretty balanced individual in your approach to training...rare in the dog training world!

The IACP site has an excellent article on "balanced" training which you might enjoy.

I do miss the days when I raised puppies and "trained" them right from the beginning. But there is an incredible need for what I'm doing now and I just love the amazed looks on the faces of the owners after one simple skill session.

Training "extremists" of all kinds are a sore spot for me for more reasons than I can describe. One of my instructors was one of these, and he went to "war" with another local extremist at the other end of the spectrum for over 12 years in my own small community. It was heartbreaking, and the poor confused owners and their dogs slipped through the cracks.

Take care and I look forward to reading more of your posts.

Have fun with your Doberkid!

Well, Angelique, in all honesty I have no idea why you tacked on your post against positive training to the post I made regarding marketing scams (which was in response to the spamming of the forum, as I mentioned before). If you were directing your comments to ME, then I suggest you go back and read my many posts where I talk about how I'm not 100% positive.

What your post sounded like is one of those people who wants to say "oh, I believe in positive reinforcement" but then later on starts talking about how to use all sorts of corrections. I don't find those people very "positive" at all - they want to think they are, but much of their training is based on punishment. When people jump in (especially where it isn't even indicated) to gripe about "positive trainers" then it sure makes the person posting look like they believe in a lot of punishment. You may not be like that but it appears that way given your particular tirade.

Most of the attacks I've seen on this training forum (your attacks included) are against people who promote the positive training. I'm not sure why people feel the need to do that. It honestly makes no sense to me. As I've said before and will probably say again - anyone who can train their dogs fully using only positives has my admiration. In all honesty, I don't know anyone who doesn't use at least a LITTLE "negative" - saying "no", withdrawing rewards, etc. can all be construed as negative by the dog, but are commonly used by positive trainers. These are effective methods and are not harsh on the dog.

How can anyone gripe about someone else using all positives? Heck, I would think we all would at least try to be that way - what a good relationship you could have with your dog if you could find a way to be 100% positive and have your dog react consistently with the behaviors you want. I'm a bit lazy though and I will take the occasional short-cut - I smacked Khana on the side with the flat of my hand today in rally practice, because she would NOT leave the bowl in the offset figure 8 even though she heard the "leave it" command. Did it hurt her? No, of course not. I smack her harder than that in play. Did she listen? Yep, she turned and looked at me with this "oh, did you mean ME?" look on her face, came back to attentive heeling and earned her hot dog treat after finishing the F8.

Someone not as lazy and with more patience would have waited, reinforced for her return of attention and all that. That would work too. I chose to insist at that point and with my particular breed (chow) that's a good thing to do (chow must translate out as "stubborn independent dog" .. *L*).

So no, I'm not 100% positive, but I do admire those who can train successfully using positives. I don't recommend corrections to people online because there is NO way I can fully understand what they're doing and what the dog is doing without viewing it, and to give them corrective methods to use on a dog when it could very well be the person's fault is completely unfair to the dog in my estimation. So online, I do promote very positive methods. I do find it very wrong that people will suggest corrective methods to other people on a venue like this. Anyone who does that does not have the dog's needs first as far as I'm concerned.

Oh - and to finish up MY tirade .. *L* .. how can anyone on here offering help and advice (some people do a LOT of this, trying to help others) be considered a marketing ploy, when what they're giving is free? I haven't seen anyone trying to sell a book other than the occasional spammer, such as the guy I was originally posting about. That is a completely different issue than the one that you brought into this thread. Your gripe had no place here, really.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska