What x-ray views should I ask for?

So Muffin is going in for his first dental in a bit over a month. While he's under I'd like to get a couple screening x-rays.... So what should I ask for? I'd like hips and elbows, but any others? Also, he's about 19.5 inches from shoulders to butt... Would it be feasible for them to position him that hips and the rest of his body is on one film just to make sure there's nothing funky in his body without taking a bunch of x-rays?

Probably not. Generally speaking the only animals we get all in one shot are cats or smaller (rabbits, birds, etc.). Also, the area of interest should be centered on the view to reduce distortion. So if you centre on the hips you're not going to get a good clear view of the abdomen.

Well darn, I was hoping to save some $.

Alright, so for a middle aged man what would be the best x-rays to take? As previously stated doing hips and elbows bc I want to know what to expect as he ages... But any other views that would be of mod-high priority?

I would ask for lateral lumbar spine as well, since he's a corgi.

Dekka recently had her spine done. It was very useful, and showed that two of her vertebrae are nearly touching. (though now that we fixed her face you would never know that her back HAS to be hurting at times)

Frodo is going under mid-December and I want carpi (wrists), spine, and hips. And essentially anything else the doctor wants I will have them do. But he's also in pain and we need to figure out why.

Yes, I will def have spine done!!! Good call! He likes to log roll while running instead of turn bc he is a weirdo. LOL. The twisting is slightly concerning.

I hope Dekka's back isn't hurting her too much. I know terriers are stoic(obviously she is after the mouth thing), but I always hate to think they're even in a little pain. Luckily Muffin is such a Diva he lets me know when there might even be the slight possibility something might potentially hurt him at some time in the future.

PW: do you think wrists would be more important than an elbow view for corgis? With their dwarfing that whole area gets all skewed and Muff has TINY legs... Like *maybe* 4 inches... he's about 10.5 inches tall, it's mostly all chest.

I'm never really a fan of going to look for something just for the sake of looking. Especially something as nondescript as a plainfilm x-ray.

It's only a piece of a puzzle and it by itself usually means nothing. Even much more sensitive imaging like MRI are pretty pointless without having a plan and meaning behind the views.

you can always find "stuff" if you go looking. Trust me. The presence or absence of something on the films usually doesn't mean a whole lot without a whole bunch of other clues and pieces in place.

To sum it up, of you're doing it for piece of mind, it isn't worth it really. The only reason I do hips and elbows is for breeding. If I wasn't, I probably wouldn't. I keep my dogs in good shape and in good health. The best preventative ever invented

I'm having Frodo's wrists done because his turn out like a basset hound's do, and he HATES having them touched. I would not even be a little bit surprised if he ends up being arthritic in them.

PW: That makes sense. Muffin's are fairly straight forward, but so much of his leg is wrist, I think I might ask the vets opinion on wrists vs elbows. I'd like to hit as many potential problem areas as possible.


RTH: Based on this response as well as numerous others, I think it's safe to say our healthcare ideas are completely different. And that's ok, but we are on polar opposites of the spectrum.

Since I didn't explicitly state my reasons for the x-rays, in the event of lurkers I will.

Any person or animal should operate within a set of "normal" limits. That being said, one persons normal is not always the same as another person's. The average heart rate for a human is 60-100bpm... But you could have one person who stays at 80 and one person who stays at 60, if all of a sudden their rates switched(ie the 60bpm was at 80 without exertion) that would be an abnormal rate for that person even though it falls within normal limits. Therefore, I firmly believe the best medicine is practiced when the dr has a history of that particular person/animals normals. Since animals can not speak beyond body language, I feel it's even more important to have an established baseline for them.

Since Muffin is undergoing a procedure already that involves him going under, now is the time for me to grab any x-rays I want. This will give me that baseline as he ages and he starts developing something. In 3 years he starts with pain, they x-ray, now they can compare to the previous x-ray without that pain to help them better treat him. Also, if anything weird does come back on the x-rays it gives me something to watch as time progresses. His hips might not be bothering him right now, x-ray comes back and they're pretty bad... Now I can keep that in mind for future and plan accordingly.

And, at the end of the day... It's my dog, my money, I can choose to screen him as much as I want.

Yep. Everybody here has been xrayed and had blood work done for reference.

Ha, I was just gonna say that baseline x-rays when a dog is acting normal are soooooo nice to compare to if something changes down the road.

It is your money and your dog. But say his hips look bad, what are you going to do differently? There are so many dogs and people that have stuff on xrays that will make you think they're a dead man (dog) walking and they're completely symptom free and live long and full lives.

If you're going to have some invasive stuff done for something symptom free on an xray, I'm afraid you're most likely in for a world of hurt in the pocket book and in terms of outcomes.

If there are non-invasive things you can be doing to help your dog along, why aren't you doing them now anyway?

So he doesn't have bad hips now, but in 3 years he will, how is that going to change your options at that time. You'll still be faced with the same stuff.

Blood work is one thing and even that is a mostly a wash in the absence of other factors, compared to something as insensitive as an xray. Sure it can be semi helpful if a tumor or something shows up and you can see if it was there or not 3 years ago, but again, what does it really change in the end in terms of options?

I feel like you have your mind set on me seeking out ways to hack up my dog when that isn't what I want the x-rays for.

As I previously stated, I want these as a baseline to be able to compare future findings back to. That is why they are being done now. I am fully aware they will prob all look "normal." They will then sit in a file forever, unless something does happen where they need to get pulled out and be compared to a new one to help figure out what changed that is hurting the dog.

In the very small off shoot that something does come back weird, we can continue to use hips as an example. It will help me determine what course of action I want to take. Would I choose to undergo an invasive surgery on *my* symptom free dog? No, I wouldn't. But that is me, perhaps someone with more money or different ideas of what healthcare means to them would.

What would I do with the information? I would start doing my research on it, see what the current standard plans of care are, see if there are any up and coming plans that I might like to try instead. I would create my plan of action for my dog when they do become systematic. I would determine now(while I am removed from the immediate gut responses) what things I am willing to put my dog through, when I would hit palliative care, and when my dog has had enough. I have a certain path of care I tend to stick to, but there are so many other factors in life I don't sit here and search out every aspect of everything and what I would do for every situation imaginable. Not to mention healthcare is constantly evolving, new techniques and procedures come out everyday... And trying to think clearly when your hit with a sick animal can be somewhat difficult.
So having an idea of what I will be facing before I am there can help me deal with the situation.

As I said before, it's clear our ideas of healthcare are completely different. And again, that is perfectly fine. You use healthcare the way you see fit, and I will use it the way I see fit. I like preventative approaches and screenings, and I am certainly not forcing them on you in any way shape or form. I came on here to find some views for something for MY dog, not yours.

ETA: and oh my, I'm also having blood work on him done. Both because I want it done before he is put under and because I want those numbers to sit in the file right next to his X-rays to make up his baseline of health to be used for diagnostic purposes if needed in the future.

I like that if you are getting xrays, you're automatically not doing non-invasive things... Because you can't possibly be doing both.


Doing xrays now doesn't mean anything will be done OMG RIGHT NOW. Xrays can sit in a file, and be pulled out and only used when needed. Having xrays when nothing is seemingly wrong is great -- they can provide extra pieces of the puzzle if something comes up in the future.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

That isn't my intention. I had this in another thread where someone was talking about something different. I'd like people to question "why" they do things, but usually i'm just met with defensiveness.

Taking x-rays just to see offers very little clinical significance. They really don't. It isn't formed because of my "view" on healthcare. It's based on my previous education. It's based on my current clinical experience. It's based on my professional relationships i've formed with many other healthcare providers and our at least monthly meetings to discuss various cases.

I guess if something came out and showed that baseline x-rays offered clinical significance on their own or resulted in better outcomes in anyway, I'd change what I think I guess.

Why does someone care how someone else chooses to spend their money?

"Baseline" x-rays aren't necessarily going to change the outcome of anything, but I think xpaeanx has made it clear that's not what they're for in this case. It's very nice to have those normal baselines on an asymptomatic dog so you know how significant minor abnormalities are down the road.

For example, if a limping dog has some minor abnormalities in, say, the wrists on x-rays but you know that two years ago those exact same minor abnormalities were present on baseline x-rays when the dog wasn't limping, it could help put them in perspective and prevent getting sidetracked by a red herring that may not be related. Or if the dog has some individual quirk of anatomy, it's nice to know that when the dog is acting totally normal so you don't overinterpret it if the dog ever isn't acting normal.

I can't tell you how many times I've x-rayed a dog or cat's spine and been very, very happy that a couple of years ago some abdominal x-rays were taken for an unrelated problem like vomiting, that I can look back and compare two moments in time with. They're very useful to have even if it doesn't change anything immediately.

I don't care how she spends money, I thought I said that. In case I didn't I'll say it again., i'm not saying any of this because I care how anybody spends their money. Take every view of all anatomy, you're covered, problem solved.

but, if you have wrist xrays and they show abnormalities and they are asymptomatic, and in 3 years they have symptoms, you're still faced with the same clinical questions. Are you going to rule out the wrist abnormalities as the pain generator simply because they were on a film 3 years ago? I know I wouldn't. Just like if they were there today and they were the only films I had, I wouldn't automatically assume the malformed carpal was the cause either. I still have to ask the same questions, do the same tests, use my brain in the same way to find the best course of action I can for a patient.

Again, neat to look at, but offers little in terms of clinical significance. So you had an ab film for unrelated stuff, how did it change your treatment? other than being cool to look at, what did it change that resulted in a better outcome? a growth that wasn't there? and now is? how did that change the course of care and more importantly, how did it change the outcome? and if it's not going to result in better outcomes, better treatment, better anything, then why are they "nice" to have?

if you can't count the times, maybe you can share one or 2 specific examples of why they were important?

my point in the beginning is when you go looking for stuff, you'll very often find something. It doesn't usually result in something "nice" to have for future reference, as clinically insignificant as that is, it also often results in over treatment.

I might ignore it, I might not. But depending on the results of a physical exam and the symptoms, I might be less likely to automatically zero in on it and assume it is the cause of symptoms if a minor abnormality has not changed its appearance at all over a span of years, and therefore might be less likely to miss another problem that is more significant.

Baseline xrays are NOT "looking for stuff." They are documenting what stuff looked like at a specific moment in time when the pet was asymptomatic. I'm not sure why that it so hard to grasp that this can be beneficial down the road if/when symptoms appear?

Baselines can actually help PREVENT delaying a proper diagnosis and treatment or treating something that isn't actually the problem if I know "oh yea this is the dog that we know has had the split fabellae for five years and there are no radiographic changes in them so that's probably not what the knee pain is about right now."

Thank you Sass, I don't think I really need to add anything.


The only thing I will say is that it is your "view" of healthcare. You take your past and current expierences and look at it and say the situations have the same outcome therefore I don't need to take the early x-rays. I take my past and current expierences and look at it and say the x-rays help in the path to arriving at the outcome therefore I want them done. You have one view and I have another. You are free to make your choices based on your views, as I am free to make mine.