Interesting read on Va hounds

Just an interesting article.

ARTICLE LINK

It's becoming a dangerous thing to have dogs these days.

Interesting . . . The only thing people hunt around here with hounds are cougars, AFAIK.

IMO it's pretty silly to allow a dog to run all over someone else's property, just because it's a hound. Every time we hear about a loose dog running into a DA dog's yard we say, "The loose dog's owner should be more responsible," (which I agree with.) Well, I don't think letting a PACK of loose dogs run onto someone else's land is any better.

"It's a tradition!" Yeah, and it started when the land was much more rural with a lot fewer people living on it.

My experience, which is primarily with fox hunters and beaglers (which is fox hunting on foot for rabbits, basically) is that they never delibrately let the dogs go where they aren't invited. They are pretty picky about it, and determined to be good neighbors and citizens. But we ARE talking about a pack of unleashed dogs . . . that are pursuing a wild animal. Sometimes, espeically if they are chasing deer or coyote (which they are NOT supposed to do, but it happens) they get partially out of the control of the huntsman. THen you just have to follow them until they stop, all the time trying to call them back with the horn. It doesn't happen often, and huge effort goes into training them not to . . . Dad's saga with deer has been going on my whole life, and believe me, it is not at all desired, and a huge ammount of training time goes into it. The fox hounds and coyotes are a particular nightmare, because there's a lot less difference (to a dog) between a coyote and a fox than between a rabbit and a deer.

The people I know have always done their best. But these things WILL happen. Now, I have no doubt that some people (probably those who hunt with guns, primarily) do go onto other people's land saying they lost their dog with the intent to hunt there. I don't know how you stop them. Dad caught some people on our land, claiming they had been pursuing a wounded deer (this was in KY). HE was pretty sure that a) they'd initally shot it on our land, and b) they'd been shining deer, not just hunting them. But prove it! Note this isn't meant as a swipe at gun hunters, but it is a different tradition, and there the point is to actually catch something, while the fox hutners and beaglers (in the US) prefer NOT to catch anything . . .they just want to run the fox or rabbit to ground and enjoy the chase.

So, there is a battle between tradition and development going on, to be sure. But its a very old tradition, and very new development, and, at least one type of hound hunters really tries to be good neighbors. But things will go wrong, its sort of inevitable. And these people have done this their whole lives . . .. often for generations . . . and suddenly there are subdivisions popping up everywhere . . . its tough . . . there's going to have to be accomidation, or some very old sports will disappear, and with them, some of the most ferocious defenders of open space and maintaining farmland against development. Which people should take into account . . .most the hunters I know are fierce defenders of wildlands, farmlands, and wildlife . .. ever seen a developer give a sh!t?

I've attended meetings of the local hunting society (not hound hunters, gun hunters) and hunters are definitely more conservation and ecologically minded than the developers I met. They are great, dedicated people when it comes to preserving wildlife (at least, wildlife they can hunt.) I have no love of developers. And I'm sure hound hunters do TRY to stay off other people's land and do work hard at training their dogs. But IMO it's not an "urbanization vs. rural" issue. It's not an "animal rights" issue. It's a straight property rights issue.

If I have some acreage and had a pet rabbit, I should be able to let it hop around my property without worrying about beagles chasing it down. Because it is MY LAND. If I have a dog-aggressive dog who stays on my property, I shouldn't have to worry that a bunch of dogs will chase a deer or rabbit onto my land, upsetting my dog and starting a dog fight. Because, again, that's MY LAND. Hounds and hound-hunters should not get special legal protection.

JMO.

I guess it depends on the county they are in. IN the county I moved from you could not allow your hounds to come onto your land. Nor could you retrieve something shot ( like a deer etc) if the deer ran onto your land before surcombing. And that county had similiar historic backgrounds. This doesn't seem to apply to the "State of Virginia"- just that area.

No hound hunter that I know would ever delibrately come on to your land. My family lives in KY, and Dad always called or knocked on the door before retrieving a hound, and NEVER went onto someone's land intentionally to hunt unless he had permission. But the truth is, sometimes the hounds go where they aren't supposed to. I'm sure, that any of the beaglers I know would be very upset and appologetic if their hounds killed your pet rabbit, but I'll point out that by an large, they don't go near subdivisions (that's getting harder) and if you live ina rural area, what is god's name are you doing with your pet rabbit in the yard with no fence? Trust me, the beaglers are the LAST thing you need to worry about . . . start with the coyotes and the hawks.

THey probably need to change the right to retrieve, because it seems to be a problem. But some of this is manners . . . the hunters should obviously keep their hounds of your land, but if one does stray (and there is no way around that happening on occaison) people should be gracious enough to let them get their dog back. And you should have a fence if you have an animal outdoors. For reasons that have nothing to do with hounds.

THere are legitimate gripes on both sides. But if its set up so that people have the standard right to sue every time a hound strays onto their property, or that laws are put in place to punish hunters if this happens, hound hunting will die out. Period. Gone. They're already running from from ARistas . . . wait until those same people get the legal opportunity to rile up suburbanites about the "poor little bunnies" or tell people that they can SUE the hunter who's dogs strayed, even if the dogs did no harm. I have no trouble imagining this. So, a long standing tradition, that causes very little harm, and has been encroched upon by development (the development is coming to them, not the other way around . . . I love it when people move out to old farm land into a McMansion colony named "Foxchase" or "Huntwood" and then howl at the possibility that an actual foxhunt might be near by and god forbid that a fox hound may stray . . . you wanted to live in "hunt country" you twits, did you think there might not be hunting there? Take your crappy subdivisions and go away.) will die out. I think you are right that the right to retrieve needs to be adapted, in light of abuse (which I have no trouble imagining from certain circles), but there needs to be some give and take . . .

Unfortunately it happens regularly around here. Not where I'd like to see legislation enacted to stop it, but I do wish those who follow hounds would unanimously inherit the tradition of courtesy that goes along with the inherent independent spirit of the sport.

When we lived off a quiet gravel road with about 10 unfenced acres that connected to hundreds of acres of utility company land, I had to interfere twice with people who drove up in our fields with the intention of spotlighting.

The place where I used to go for herding lessons had to build hurdles over the fences of his sheep pastures, or the foxhunters would break fences to follow the dogs. Not, take their horses over the fences as he had high tensile and that was far too dangerous. They'd whip out their snips and SNAP, TWANG, CRACK - they cut enough wire to allow their horses to step over. Do you know how difficult it is to repair HT fence? Every time he heard the hounds, he'd sigh and say, well, I gotta go get the sheep out of that pasture and walk the fences tomorrow before I go to work.

The gentleman behind us, on the other hand, a beagler (is that the right term?), always knocked or phoned and asked permission to cross our pasture to retrieve dogs. Later, in fact, he'd simply leave a message that the dog was lost because the dogs would usually come up to our house looking for a handout and we'd catch them and take them back. So I know they aren't all or even mostly bad. The nuisance hunters make a bad name for everyone.

He would have been a beagler if he hunted his beagles in basically the same way as the foxhunters (large pack, no guns) but minus the horses. Fewer hounds and guns . . . I"m not sure if there's a technical term, but its not called "beagling."


I'm appalled. Just appalled at them CUTTING THE FENCE. Not just regularly tresspassing, but vandalism. Did he consider calling the regional or national hunt club? Because clearly the local hunt club is a bit to into the whole "nobility" thing that goes with foxhunting and thinks their fancy coats ACTUALLY give them a noble's rights. If this is becoming more common, I understand why people are upset.

the root cause of the problem is overdevelopment. a lot of complaints are coming from residents of the the little 5-10 acre farmette subdivisions. they flee the city or burbs and and then try to change the country to be like the place they just left. they get all butt hurt when the deer dogs on the adjacent farm, paper company or public land chase bambi through their back yard and some redneck pulls up in front of their house w/ a tracking antennae sticking out his window at 6 AM. then when he walks into unfenced the back yard to grab his walker that's trying to impregnate their BYB "lab," they come out of the house screaming like a banshee before he even gets to start apologizing. now whatever courtesy and respect they were going to get has just been thrown out the window. a good half of the complaints are some variation of this scenario.

Overdevelopment is a huge part of the problem. On the other hand, things like cutting the fence are just rude and illegal. If this was a frequent event, then the hunters needed toapproach the land owner and ask for permission to cross his land and offer to install jumps in his fence so they can cross. My grandmother, an avid foxhunter in her youth AND a sheep farmer, has fences all over her property like this . . . regular sheep fence with jumps interspersed that were sheep proof. She and her riders would go install them on places they hunted as well (after asking). My young cousin rides over jumps that her grandmother initially installed 50 years ago on other people's land (with permission).

On the other hand, I share (as I stated above) the legitimate annoyance with people who love out into the country and then are surprised, shocked and horrified to find that they are living IN THE COUNTRY. Yes, hounds and rednecks and wildlife, oh my! Yes, that's a fox hunt, yes that's a tractor pull, and yes, people REALLY DO THAT OUT HERE. Just as I would be very surprised to find a fox hunt tearing through my Alexandria neighborhood, you should be very UNSURPRISED to find one out in the country. Yes, the hunters should be polite (that fence thing really gets me, the man has sheep, for gods sake) but people who chose to move out to the "country" should be able to cope with rural life.


Frankly, I'd prefer that most of them not move out at all . . . they bring the city with them, or more correctly, their strip malls. THE landscape of my childhood, around my parent's land in KY and my grandmother's in VA has totally disppeared under McMansions and strip malls, to the point where I get lost in places I've been all my life, because the landmarks are gone. Then these people drive into the city each day, creating horrible traffic and pollution and don't get me started. The little farmettes bother me less, but they need to realize what they are getting into . . . they are getting into farming . . . and that means living with rural people and rural life.

I agree. the fence thing is outrageous and i'd have words w/ a lot of people on that hunt. since the hounds are running through a pasture full of sheep the farmer could even have plausible deniablity for shooting them. not smart on the hunt's members at all. OTH since the dogs are apparently well trained, and me being me, i'd find some way to screw w/ the members of the hunt like shooting fireworks as the hunt passes through, but before they enter my land. sugar in the gas tank while they are following the hounds and screwdriver holes in the radiator. lots of ways to get their attention so they'll sit down and talk out a solution.