Comment on my video please.

JoeLacy

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We are about to see where Jax is on his CGC. He has his CGC test on Saturday. The evaluator said we can test and then retest if he's weak in areas. At least I will know where he is on all this and I can work on those areas "if" he fails. That gives Jax and I two more days to get ready...

I guess we'll see what I'm are made of huh? I know Jax can do it, the real question is can I proof him enough in two days to pass?

Jax needs to get to bed early, we have "stuff" to do tomorrow.
 

JoeLacy

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Out of the 8 days I have had Jax, it's rained on 5 of them and we've been mostly house bound. We had almost 3 inches more yesterday and it's still raining this morning. Rain, Rain, please go away. It's supposed to stop today and Jax and I can get out and proof.

I spoke to the evaluator about Jax and he was pretty impressed that I would even consider a test this soon but I could hear the skepticism in his voice. He said where most dogs fail is on the long line. Stay at 20 feet facing the dog, then the recall command after you put the dog in a stay then turn your back and walk away. I'm going to focus our training in those two tests in the time remaining.

There is no question in my mind that at some point Jax will pass. If he'll pass this soon is the real question. It would be great if he did, but if he doesn't we'll continue to work towards it.

I looked into the CGC classes and those last 5 weeks. I could see it taking 5 weeks for some dogs who start from scratch, but Jax is so close already I think it would just be a waste of time and money. Jax doesn't need CGC basics IMO, he just needs CGC fine tuning.

The only test I have not attempted is the supervised separation. Jax is all about me and while he goes along with the program well, I don't have a clue how he will react if I leave him for 3 minutes with a stranger. It could go either way.

Jax motivator is that Tennis ball, I think I could teach him to play guitar if it was yellow and fuzzy. Verbal and hand signals are not as solid but he does respond (mostly).

When I look back over the last week of training Jax, there are some things I missed along the way, and that I didn't miss when training Peyt. The main one was "look". I didn't stay with that command long enough and his look command is sloppy. I recall saying here I had a hard time getting Jax to focus and I left "look" at 50%. It's better now, but I'll have to go back and fix that one. That may also account in part of his slower learning than Peyton. It could be that he was just shy and he wasn't comfortable with the intense eye contact, but I know "Look" is not solid.

Another thing that I could do better is be crisper on my commands and hand gestures. I can whisper to Peyton and she'll do what I ask. I find if I'm a bit louder and more animated Jax responds better. I'm learning...

Peyt was worn out from the DP the other day and slept most of the day yesterday. (plus it rained all day) She got up around time to go to sleep last night and jumped up on the bed. Jax went to licking her inside the mouth, (really gross) then Peyt put her arm over Jax and they both fell asleep cuddled up. It was a gross but awe moment.

Jax has a little more bounce in his step around the house now, the tail wag is wider and he seems to be coming out of his shell. He responds better to me if I'm down on the floor than standing over him and if we're both laying in the bed, he gives me more kisses than I can stand. I think Jax likes it here, and both Peyt and I like him here too.

I'll try to post more videos over the next couple of days and try to record the CGC test too. It will be interesting to see what happens in any case.
 

Lolas Dad

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I looked into the CGC classes and those last 5 weeks. I could see it taking 5 weeks for some dogs who start from scratch, but Jax is so close already I think it would just be a waste of time and money. Jax doesn't need CGC basics IMO, he just needs CGC fine tuning.

The only test I have not attempted is the supervised separation. Jax is all about me and while he goes along with the program well, I don't have a clue how he will react if I leave him for 3 minutes with a stranger. It could go either way.
As for Lola we did not do any classes except for 2 therapy dog classes and the only reason we did those was because I wanted to learn the different aspects of a therapy dog visit outside of the CGC test.

As for the supervised separation I knew when Lola was ready because of what I had done a few times before. When I first adopted her about 6 months later we went to a dog fair event and I had the person I was with take Lola's leash when I went to the rest room. She did not do so well.

Another time I was at the dog park and a few people I got to know were there so when I had to use the restroom there I asked one of them if they could keep an eye on her and they agreed. As I was coming out of the restroom which was about a minute walk away from the DP I seen Lola running full speed in the parking lot heading for my truck. She squeezed herself through the gate and the woman that had her in her arms said that when I left she just leaped out of her arms was crying and got through the gate. To get her ready I would walk outside the DP and watch her from the fence. This way if she tried to get out I was right there. When it got to the point that she did not even notice me leave the DP I knew she was ready.

As for the 20ft recall when you have Jax in a sit down and he is totally focused with his eyes on you and nothing else and then when you call him he comes straight to you he is ready for that part of the test. If he can do that now perfectly in the dog park with other dogs all around then he will pass that part. The CGC test may or may not be done with others taking the test at the same time and may or may not be taken with other dogs around. That is why when I was teaching Lola sit and wait I did it at the dog park because you can't get anymore distractions than that in my opinion.

What you may want to do over the next two days is run Jax through the whole test towards the end of the days you are working on the other stuff and see how he does. Get someone you know to handle Jax with the supervised separation and if I were you I would do it in a place that he is not all that familiar with. If you did this in your own home he may react differently in another place.

If he has not been to a Petco or Pet Smart that often then that would be a good place for him to do that. If Jax does not bark and does not pull on the leash looking for you and going nuts he will pass that part. A little curiosity is ok but nothing extreme. Lola did not even notice I was gone she was just sitting there looking at the other dogs that were there so she passed.

Good luck on the test, if he fails you know what areas to work on and if he passes then that's great. If he passes his CGC and is great with people he does not even know then he would make a good therapy dog.
 

JoeLacy

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That Petsmart proofing is an AWESOME idea! That had never occurred to me, thank you! We'll be going there this morning for sure.

I have two of those in mind, one is more quiet and the other had a doggy daycare. If Jax holds his focus up next to the glass at doggy day care, he deserves a medal. :) Great idea. I'll put Jax on a 14' retractable and see how he does. I'll video it so everyone here can see.

Maybe I could find someone who works at Petsmart to hold him while I walked away for 3 mins.

The evaluator is bringing his own dogs at least one, and he said there are plenty of dogs in the park that time of day on Saturday. He said he's been a dog trainer for 35 years and Jax would be the only dog testing.

Jax and I did run through the stay tests this morning and he did well. He remembers. I just told him to stay and turned my back and walked away. He did fine for over 30'. Then I tried it again and this time walked out of his sight. The first time he stayed, the second time be broke stay to come follow me when I went out of sight. He was rock solid though as long as he could see me.

Stay for duration started at 15sec, then 30, then 45, now a full minute before he comes to me without a release word. Stay for duration was added just this morning.

So, at this very moment , Jax will hold a stay with my back turned and me walking away with no eye contact other than at the command for a full minute with only that one command to 30' in the house. Good boy Jax!

If he will do that at the DP and Petsmart, then we have a winner. You guys will the the second ones to know.

Jax and I are off, to start our training day...
 

JoeLacy

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A big "F" on supervised separation. Jax seems to look for to me for security. Didn't bark, growl or anything but did pull on the leash at Petsmart trying to find me. I don't think he would pass that test and that's NOT something I know how to train in a day. I thought that "might" have been a problem given the fact he never lets me out of his sight, but I wasn't expecting such a reaction. It wasn't good.

As far as the 20 foot long line, that's not an issue anymore. He will stay even in petsmart over by the Birds or by the checkout or in any aisle.

Here Jax is at the birds. He would pass.
YouTube - Jax in Stay at Petsmart

Outside I can get even further before he breaks.
YouTube - Jax in Stay at Distance
 

smkie

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That may be the one thing that will take time. For VIctor when we took the first pets for life test, it was the surprise during the down stay. THey snuck up behind him and opened an umbrella. IT was to simulate the swishing of a hospital curtain. Loud sounds, unexpected things just made him jump right out of his skin. IN the long run working on this I think helped him be a much happier dog in our world. I got an umbrella and it was about our best friend along with rattly plastic sacks, and noisy metal trashcans. we worked for about 4 months and then retested. THe second time around during the down stay they came up behind him and dropped a large metal salad bowl about 3 feet behind him. He merely looked back with a big grin on his face. I may never get Pepper to pass this test. Licking and kissing are such a part of her and in two years tho i have decreased the zest with which she goes after a person, i can't get her to stop without her feeling totally rejected. WE have tried replacing her meet and greet with a sit and shake which she does very well, but as soon as the person squats down and squeees at her, the tongue is out and flapping a mile a minute. I have given up for the most part. SHe is happy, and has come so far but if I push her on this, i think it will break her heart so we don't.
 

bubbatd

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At least today they let someone hold the leach .....back when , we had to tie it to something and my female hated to be tied up ! I was in another room on my hands and knees praying as I expected to hear the table flying across the floor or IB with a 1/2 a leach in my lap ! She made it !
 

JoeLacy

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I think I could train it out, by leaving at 5 sec, 10 sec. 30 sec. intervals etc. It could have been the lady that was holding him or his frame of mind or something that spooked him after I left. He doesn't feel very secure at Petsmart anyway and whatever it was, pushed him over the edge.

I didn't give the stay command, just handed him off and maybe he didn't know what I wanted him to do. The groomer is there and while he's only been there once, they have reported no problems, so I just don't know.

The only thing I know to do it test and see what happens, it could be a different outcome.
 

smkie

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Maybe it will take baby steps. My Mary has seperation anxiety. To help her I would close the door, open the door reward. Close the door count to 5 and reward. Increments each day just a little bit longer (mixed it up too..sometimes really short) until i was able to go to the store without having a room shredded. WE practiced until her whole focus was not being left alone, but feeling that just any second I was going to open that door and voila a treat!

Maybe Jax had an unpleasant experience with a woman too. Maybe the devil eye woman left a bad taste in his mind.
 

JoeLacy

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Maybe Jax had an unpleasant experience with a woman too. Maybe the devil eye woman left a bad taste in his mind.
LOL Someone has been harsh on this dog for sure. If it was the original owner or that ACO, no clue. He can be really timid at times and I feel bad for him. Someone almost ruined this dog for good.
 

JoeLacy

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I just don't know what's going on with this guy. I'm thinking he's never had anyone be so nice to him. Jax likes me and a LOT. He still won't eat or drink unless I'm in the room. His favorite place is in my lap on the couch on his back for belly rubs or his head next to my pillow along with mine. He would be fine sleeping nose to nose with me wrapped up in my arms. He must come up and lay his head on my knee for head pets at least 100 times a day. Where I go, he goes, period. He's not Velcrowy, he's super glued.

If he was shy around me or afraid of me, it wouldn't be that way. Maybe he was abandoned or starved for attention or something, but whatever his past, he likes it with me big time and I wouldn't have it any other way.

The problem comes in when it becomes so obsessive. I love having him around but being so obsessive is not being a balanced dog. I wish there was a way I could tell him to relax and have fun, he's a Lacy now and it's for his life.

This may sound bizarre, but I get the feeling like he does not know what I want him to do out there. It's as though if he makes a mistake, I'll get mad and leave him or he will disappoint me somehow. When we get out of the car, he seems frantic to find out which direction I'm going so he can be by my side. Sometimes he goes in front of me, so he can look back and verify I'm still there.

I think he believes to stay is some kind of punishment for something he has done wrong. His ears go back, the shoulders drop. I believe he thinks I don't want to be with him. If I break the command and tell him to come he does so very slowly. He just doesn't understand why he can't be with me and I think I hurt his feeling if I leave him in a stay and move away.

I look at him sometimes and realize what a timid and fragile spirit this guy has. He's just so sweet and so wants to please and to be so kind and so tender to everyone and everything.

He just doesn't know how to act in most cases out in the real world and he seems afraid to make a mistake. He looks to me to tell him what he can do and can't and once he knows he seems much happier to be himself.

He knows how to do one thing very well. Chase a Tennis ball and bring it back and boy does he do that with a vengeance. He's comfortable doing that and the rules are clear cut for him. The rest of the world is not so clear to him. Once he's figured something out is safe, like playing with Peyton rough and tumble running throughout the house, he's all puppy, all border, all fun. He's figured out, I'm safe and tender with him and that's the reason he looks to me and comes to me. I'm clear cut to him.

Honestly, I don't care if he get's his CGC, it's the behaviors that matter and as long as I have enough control to keep him from running across the road and getting hit, and he's easy on the leash and sweet and affectionate to strangers and Peyton, it just doesn't matter if he has a piece of paper saying so. That piece of paper says absolutely nothing about the character of this puppy.

We'll go do the CGC test, if he passes great, if he doesn't that's fine too. But I don't need a certificate to love this dog and a certificate won't make me love him more and I won't break the spirit of the dog to get one.
 

lizzybeth727

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You HAVE to understand, Joe, that this dog has not been with you for ANY time at all. I know a week seems long to you, but he's still trying to figure out what's going on with his life. He has no idea who you are, what you like, what you dislike, what's going to happen with him, nothing. Yeah, life would be a lot easier if we could explain to our dogs that they're with us forever; but we CAN'T. You have to give him time to settle in on his own, be patient and give him as long as it takes.

When I look back over the last week of training Jax, there are some things I missed along the way, and that I didn't miss when training Peyt. The main one was "look". I didn't stay with that command long enough and his look command is sloppy. I recall saying here I had a hard time getting Jax to focus and I left "look" at 50%. It's better now, but I'll have to go back and fix that one. That may also account in part of his slower learning than Peyton. It could be that he was just shy and he wasn't comfortable with the intense eye contact, but I know "Look" is not solid.
Of course it's sloppy, he's only been learning this for a few days. How many different verbal cues have you taught him this week? I know he's a very quick learner and extremely intelligent, but there is a point when you teach so much that you just confuse him. Try to be more patient, you have YEARS to teach him all this stuff.
 

Lolas Dad

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How is Jax when you leave him in the house by himself for a few minutes? You may want to work on that and then the supervised separation will follow. When I first adopted Lola I thought she was going to freak out after her previous owner left from dropping her off. She did not make a sound and was comfortable here. I only found out about her SA after I left the house for a few hours.

Once I was able to leave her alone for hours in the house the supervised separation was a piece of cake. As I said I tried it out in the DP and she was ok with it. If he never wants to leave your side and be by himself he will never pass the supervised separation part of the CGC. If you have not spent the money for the test yet I would cancel for now and give it some time. A week or two having a new dog is not enough time.
 

JoeLacy

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Both of you make very valid points, thanks.

I can teach him the leave it command but I can't teach I'm not leaving you.

Jax is not Peyton and what was fine for her is apparently not fine for Jax.

I think we all suffer from new car syndrome when we get a new dog. We want to show it off, keep it xtra clean and see how fast it will go. I may have pushed Jax to his speed limit.

I can't count the number of times, people have commented on how well trained they find Jax. Many ask if I trained him myself or if he was trained before I got him. Most are astounded and some even speechless and some doubt my truthfulness when I tell them I have only had him a few days. Most say they wish their dog was as well mannered and trained.

If I looked back at where he was and how he has developed to this point I can't help but be happy with his progress. Jax has near zero bad habits that have surfaced so far or have been able to easily correct.

If Jax never learned another command in his life he would still be better mannered and better trained than the vast majority of dogs out there. He's completely and totally controllable under a variety of conditions. I can't think of one single place I could not take Jax now. I can think of a lot of places I could not take Peyton.

Jax is most comfortable at home, in the car and the dog park. He's more comfortable outdoors in a strange place than indoors like Petsmart. He does not shut down at Petsmart, he just doesn't know how to act, what he can do and should not do so he tends to be a bit more reserved, afraid and less focused by 50% at Petsmart than home.

If you remember, yesterday we did 60 seconds for stay at home. At petmarts it was 30 seconds over and over again. Thinking it might have been energy, I took him to the DP, he ran for almost an hour, then I took him back to Petsmart and re-tested the stay. It was the same 30 seconds. Exercise didn't make him feel more comfortable at Petsmart, that was not the answer.

We all wish we had a crystal ball and could look back at out rescue dogs past to find out what kind of life and treatment they had prior to us. We can't do that and can only try to guess by watching their reactions to our commands and in a variety of environments. I thought Jax was an outside dog when he came to me, but he has adjusted so well to being an inside dog, I'm questioning my first assumption. Fact is, I know nothing about this dog other than what I have seen, and see right now.

What I see right now is simply a dog that is slightly overwhelmed with all the new changes. Some he loves like being with myself, Peyton and home. Other people, dogs and places he's less sure about. It's not that he does not want to go and meet and see new places, he's just unsure about the rules of engagement. That's really the bottom line is all of this.

This may be in part due to his high perception level. Jax seems to take everything in this environment into his thinking process at one time. Petsmart is a dog store to you and I, but to Jax, it's a place with countless sights, smells, noises and distractions. My guess is he's trying to process all of it at the same time and all of it is foreign to him. He doesn't know what to trust or what to avoid and that may be why he looks to me so closely when we are out there.

I don't know guys, I'm just guessing. Jax is a really great dog, I'd love to see him relax more when we are out and about and be the BC puppy he is at home and the DP. How I get him to relax sooner rather than later is really the question. Not for me personally, but for Jax.

The CGC test is simply a barometer and a conformation of what I already know. I have a pretty good idea what kind of Canine Citizen this guy is today and it's very very good. If it meets some arbitrary AKC standard subject to one evaluators interpretation is frankly of less value to me than what I know already about my own dog. Having said that, I can't see any harm in getting an "experts" (ugh) opinion on Jax. We'll run through the tests, then scoop up Peyton at the house, off to the DP for fun, home for belly rubs and kisses even if Jax fails every single test. Absolutely nothing will change if he passes or fails any test or all of them.

I've never done a CGC test and it might be fun, as long as it doesn't hurt his progress and believe me, I'll see to that, then it's just another great day in the park with my really great dog and that's exactly how I'm approaching the CGC.

I have to think too, going from knowing nothing to a CGC candidate in 10 days, is a pretty remarkable feet in itself and a real testament to Jax pass or fail. If he's this good now, oh my, what will he be like a year from now?

You guys want to know what his absolutely worse behavior is? He "sometimes" gently puts his paw on my knee for attention when I'm sitting down. That's it, that's all, he has no other behaviors that need correcting going into day 9. Ok, maybe the one where he watches me in the shower, but if he can live with that sight, so can I.
 

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