Lady clones five pups from her pit bull.
- Thread starter SmexyPibble
- Start date
Wow! :yikes: Did you read what I wrote directly or run it through a hate filter first?
I was serious about the environmental influence on animal appearance. I don't know what creates a blaze, but if it pops up in a cloned animal either they did something wrong or the blaze isn't controlled exclusively by genes. I was hoping to learn more, not trying to **** you off.
With regards to the pits as service dogs, come on. I trained dogs for police type work in the past, as did many of my friends at the time. You couldn't give a pit to a police department. They wouldn't touch them, which was a real shame bc they are they single best breed we have in shelters in this county for detection type work. We had to leave them to die, bc you know when you get a pit it won't matter how good it is- you're stuck with it.
I can't imagine that the service dog companies are clamoring for more pits either. Does anyone here know of a single service dog company that takes pits without prejudice? And, if they do, do they start a pit breeding program or do they go to the shelters and select from the many great pits who are there and scheduled to die?
I was serious about the environmental influence on animal appearance. I don't know what creates a blaze, but if it pops up in a cloned animal either they did something wrong or the blaze isn't controlled exclusively by genes. I was hoping to learn more, not trying to **** you off.
With regards to the pits as service dogs, come on. I trained dogs for police type work in the past, as did many of my friends at the time. You couldn't give a pit to a police department. They wouldn't touch them, which was a real shame bc they are they single best breed we have in shelters in this county for detection type work. We had to leave them to die, bc you know when you get a pit it won't matter how good it is- you're stuck with it.
I can't imagine that the service dog companies are clamoring for more pits either. Does anyone here know of a single service dog company that takes pits without prejudice? And, if they do, do they start a pit breeding program or do they go to the shelters and select from the many great pits who are there and scheduled to die?
To answer the question about blazes . . . no, animal markings are not exclusively controled by genes . . . they are effected by womb enviroment and epigenetic factors such as gene activation. This is why cc looks nothing like her calico mother and why the Missy clones have slightly different markings.
The five dogs are probably about as alike as siblings from a highly inbred line . . . which still doesn't explain what anyone would do with five of them, or three for that matter. Even if you wanted a dog strongly similar to a previous dog, that seems like, err . . . too much of a good thing? Boring? Excessive?
The five dogs are probably about as alike as siblings from a highly inbred line . . . which still doesn't explain what anyone would do with five of them, or three for that matter. Even if you wanted a dog strongly similar to a previous dog, that seems like, err . . . too much of a good thing? Boring? Excessive?
If you look at the Best Friends Again website they are auctioning off the chance to have your dog cloned... the bids start at $140,000 and only lists two of them as being closed.
Since the one place is located in south korea I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest it's one of the "winners".
If you look up some of the other pet clonings... people often seem to suggest they have very similar personalities...
I can't help but wonder a few things about this.
1. Since the animal is living with the same family and they would likely treat it exactly the same (why not) would it not just develope some of it's behaviour from the environment it's in.
2. When the new pet does something the old pet even if it's not common... are people who want to believe just going to say oh yes they are so similar they both do this... in which case humans are just seeing what they want to see.
Either way I think it's actually a pretty terrible thing to do... lets honor the memory of our dead pet by trying to make an exact replica of him so I don't have to miss the original.
Nevermind, found this at the bottom
Looks like she's paying $50,000
Since the one place is located in south korea I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest it's one of the "winners".
If you look up some of the other pet clonings... people often seem to suggest they have very similar personalities...
I can't help but wonder a few things about this.
1. Since the animal is living with the same family and they would likely treat it exactly the same (why not) would it not just develope some of it's behaviour from the environment it's in.
2. When the new pet does something the old pet even if it's not common... are people who want to believe just going to say oh yes they are so similar they both do this... in which case humans are just seeing what they want to see.
Either way I think it's actually a pretty terrible thing to do... lets honor the memory of our dead pet by trying to make an exact replica of him so I don't have to miss the original.
Nevermind, found this at the bottom
Looks like she's paying $50,000
Honestly, while I don't think it's the smartest thing to do, there are worse things people can do with their money. I don't feel sorry for these animals, they are probably going to live pampered lives and be treated better than most human children around the world (medical care, nutritious food, etc).
I try to think of clones as an identical twin to the original animal. Just younger. And as we all know, identical twins certainly do not have identical personalities.
And there are APBT service dogs out there. I don't know if they are trained by organizations, or owner trained, but they exist. Walmart was sued about a year ago (I think) because they made a service dog team leave, because the dog was a pit bull. I think the manager said something along the lines of, "How dare you bring that thing in here! There are children!"
TIhey settled out of court though, and Walmart ended up giving the dog millions of free toys and treats, and big fat apology.
I try to think of clones as an identical twin to the original animal. Just younger. And as we all know, identical twins certainly do not have identical personalities.
And there are APBT service dogs out there. I don't know if they are trained by organizations, or owner trained, but they exist. Walmart was sued about a year ago (I think) because they made a service dog team leave, because the dog was a pit bull. I think the manager said something along the lines of, "How dare you bring that thing in here! There are children!"
TIhey settled out of court though, and Walmart ended up giving the dog millions of free toys and treats, and big fat apology.
I've been thinking about this more . . . Isn't this exactly the same as BYBing because "my dog is [so cute, so sweet, the best dog ever]"? Only instead of breeding dogs in the traditional sense, they're cloning them. They're still producing dogs without health testing and with no conformation history. It's great that her dog was brave and saved her life once, but I question whether that alone is a reason to breed.
Well, only sort of. The goal is to create one animal that is a duplicate . . . so its not exactly the same as "breeding." The extras are sort of the collateral damage from the process. So, in sense, its creating more dogs with no health testing, confirmation history or performance history. On the other hand, it is less of a crap shoot, because you've seen what that combination of genes has doen previously . . . and the intention is a little different.
Frankly, I don't approve of it for reasons that are much more fundamental than a resemblance the BYB's so . . . shrug.
Frankly, I don't approve of it for reasons that are much more fundamental than a resemblance the BYB's so . . . shrug.
As long as she is taking responsibility for the puppies' welfare, I don't see it that way. A byb breeder typically does it to turn a profit. And this..well...it's kind of the opposite.
She does plan to keep three, and donate the other two to service dog orgs. I can't imagine that she would dump the those two at the pound or leave them in the woods to fend for themselves if they don't pan out as service dog prospects.
She does plan to keep three, and donate the other two to service dog orgs. I can't imagine that she would dump the those two at the pound or leave them in the woods to fend for themselves if they don't pan out as service dog prospects.
Thanks for the info- I had no idea. Makes you wonder about breeders who worry about how much white is on the chest of a dog. Maybe you better look at the whole line to see what your odds are for that cropping up in the pups Not that I care. But a lot of people make their breeding decisions like this, it would be good if they had accurate info.
And, as far as cloning being like BYB, I get the point in this case. Producing 5 lives seems excessive and likely to result in some (just as nice) shelter dogs not finding homes.
But, what about purpose bred dogs- police, service, SAR, detection, herding, etc. If we could clone the very best (and if this resulted in a higher percentage of workable adults) this would result in far fewer dogs produced. Right now the number of puppies produced far exceeds the number who end up being suitable for the task. All the excess flood the pet market or end up in shelters or euthanized. I think I'd be all for cloning in this case. What do you think? Any disadvantages?
Not that I care. But a lot of people make their breeding decisions like this, it would be good if they had accurate info.And, as far as cloning being like BYB, I get the point in this case. Producing 5 lives seems excessive and likely to result in some (just as nice) shelter dogs not finding homes.
But, what about purpose bred dogs- police, service, SAR, detection, herding, etc. If we could clone the very best (and if this resulted in a higher percentage of workable adults) this would result in far fewer dogs produced. Right now the number of puppies produced far exceeds the number who end up being suitable for the task. All the excess flood the pet market or end up in shelters or euthanized. I think I'd be all for cloning in this case. What do you think? Any disadvantages?
Thanks for the info- I had no idea. Makes you wonder about breeders who worry about how much white is on the chest of a dog. Maybe you better look at the whole line to see what your odds are for that cropping up in the pups Not that I care. But a lot of people make their breeding decisions like this, it would be good if they had accurate info.
And, as far as cloning being like BYB, I get the point in this case. Producing 5 lives seems excessive and likely to result in some (just as nice) shelter dogs not finding homes.
But, what about purpose bred dogs- police, service, SAR, detection, herding, etc. If we could clone the very best (and if this resulted in a higher percentage of workable adults) this would result in far fewer dogs produced. Right now the number of puppies produced far exceeds the number who end up being suitable for the task. All the excess flood the pet market or end up in shelters or euthanized. I think I'd be all for cloning in this case. What do you think? Any disadvantages?
Not that I care. But a lot of people make their breeding decisions like this, it would be good if they had accurate info.And, as far as cloning being like BYB, I get the point in this case. Producing 5 lives seems excessive and likely to result in some (just as nice) shelter dogs not finding homes.
But, what about purpose bred dogs- police, service, SAR, detection, herding, etc. If we could clone the very best (and if this resulted in a higher percentage of workable adults) this would result in far fewer dogs produced. Right now the number of puppies produced far exceeds the number who end up being suitable for the task. All the excess flood the pet market or end up in shelters or euthanized. I think I'd be all for cloning in this case. What do you think? Any disadvantages?
We all have protein caps on the ends of our dna strands. Throughout our lives, each and every time the dna strand is duplicated to make a new cell, that protein cap degenerates. This degeneration is very closely connected to aging. It is thought that if we could figure out a way to regenerate the protein caps, we could effectively, be immortal. Barring any traumatic injury of course.
When an organism is cloned, the parent dna has already been "aged", meaning it's already been depleted by however long the donor parent has been alive. This was the problem with Dolly the sheep. Her "mother" was already four years old when she was cloned, so Dolly was effectively four years old when she was born. I mean, she was an infant, but as a young adult she had all the issues a four year old ewe could be expected to have because the dna caps had already been depleted by four years worth of replications, and she had about 4 years taken off her life expectancy.
This could be an issue with cloning working animals, as by the time they have proven themselves to be worthy of cloning, they are already several years old.
My other concern would be our gene pool for working dogs. If the majority of our working dogs were clones, what would happen to our lines of working dogs?
LOL I read this thread to make the comment about telomeres and aging. And how if you clone a 6 year old dog, the pups start out with 6 year old DNA and 6 years of degraded telomeres. Go you for beating me too it
! (yes there are other parts to aging-but telomeres are a big part of it)The only time I agree with cloning is for extenuating circumstances to reintroduce exceptional bloodlines. Ei Scamper was the worlds top barrel racing horse...10 times! But he was gelded before anyone knew his extreme talent. They cloned him (and no his markings are not the same) to breed http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/15738839/. His telomeres might be prematurely shortened, but his sperm cells are just fine. People are now cloning racehorses. Its cheaper to clone in some cases than breed!
Wouldn't that be the same as the BYBer who breeds her chihuahua and keep the two puppies (if there are only two) because "she wants a dog just like Maizy", though? Not all BYBs sell dogs, some just breed "to show the children the miracle of birth" or for whatever reason and give puppies to their relatives.
On a completely different note, here is a picture of one of the surrogate mothers. She looks too thin to me . . .
http://rnl.co.kr/eng/pr/images/engnews_20080805.jpg